Shi Hengshan commits suicide

[richard sloan]

whoah...

let's leave Yan Ming out of this grist mill, trust me we are even as I type this moving into a new space, building around the clock, we certainly don't have time to send any killers anywhere, they are all putting up walls, painting, and installing flooring and have been for weeks, not to mention all the other stuff we are working on...so I don't think anything has been heard from our people except nails, hammers, and occassional expletives...

This is the first I have even heard about this incident...Amitabha for this loss.

Clean, I'm surprised you left out Yan Chang.

[nyhakka]

Please, then, why are they still training there and support ing the "dark" Shaolin.

I am speaking with a few Chinese Buddists attorneys that just for the right causes, we should start a criminal case agaist Guolin, on abuse and also Fraud and lying to the immigration which Guolin openly admitted in his interview on the death case, contact me offline if those Guolin's students are willing to testify as witnesses and of couse some Buddhist Charity groups would come up with a fee to pay for the witness's time.

Again, this is not personal, I think Guolin's Hard Qigong is pretty good that I would even send my son to him if he drops his monk robe.

If the law does not take care of this, Shi Yongxin should, if he doesn't, then maybe......what happened to Hengshan, will happen to Guolin too.......

Also, any Guolin students here, please contact me in PM, for a good cause,

but wait a day or so, Gene is right too, let's see what the cops find on this.

A criminal case is fruitless since proving Goulin actually commited a crime will be tough...now a CIVIL suit...that's the way to go!

[Lokhopkuen]

This is really sad.

Peace to Shi Hengshan.

[CFT]

Translation of the Singtao article.

師弟上吊枉死 師兄欲討公道主持釋果林﹕怎會刻薄徒弟

Younger martial brother needlessly dies by hanging, martial senior seeks justice; abbot Shi Guolin: why would I oppress my student?

(本報訊 )紐約法拉盛少林寺武術教練釋恒善懸樑自盡後，恒善的師兄釋延章和可樂娜少林寺法師恒霖等人，均對法拉盛少 林寺的主持釋果林表示不滿，認為果林沒有盡到僱主責任，希望社會能替恒善「討回公道」。他們並 表示，將在本 周五舉辦法會，為恒善之靈超度。

After the suicide by hanging of New York Flushing Shaolin Temple martial arts instructor Shi Hengshan, his elder martial brother Shi Yanzhang and master Henglin of Corona Shaolin Temple et al. hope that society can help Hengshan seek justice. They also state that this Friday they will hold a [Buddhist] ceremony to release his spirit [not sure what the right term is].

得知少林寺發生又一起惡性事件後，社區人士亦認為，少林寺本來是個佛教聖地、健身武館，是人們追求精神出世 、身體健康的地方，卻不想一再發生跳樓、自盡等惡性事件以及許多世俗糾紛，這實在令人無法理解 。

We have news of yet another malign incident at the Shaolin Temple. Local people believe that the Shaolin Temple should be a sacred Buddhist place, a martial training place for building the body, a place for attaining spiritual enlightenment. We don’t want to hear again of jumping off buildings, suicides and other secular affairs. This is all inexplicable.

皇后區可樂娜少林寺的恒霖法師介紹，可樂娜少林寺是在1992年成立，來自中國大陸的果林，最先是投靠可樂 娜少林寺，被師傅釋延常收留，一起修禪習武。幾年後，果林與他人一起另立門戶，並於1999年在法拉盛興建 了一間少林寺。恒霖法師表示，恒善走上絕路對佛教界震動很大，果林應對此負責。她認為，果林扣押恒善等武術 教練的護照，卻並未替他們辦身分，致使恒善等人身分「黑」了下來。本來有病卻沒有經濟來源的的恒善，發現自 己來美數年後居然沒有合法身分，心情更加鬱悶，終於走上絕路。恒霖表示，作為擔保恒善到美國工 作的寺廟主持 ，果林時常讓恒善吃些剩飯，令恒善身體越來越差。最近一段時間，果林更是刻薄恒善，最後將恒善「逼出」法拉 盛少林寺。她表示，少林弟子在美無親無故，希望社會給予幫助，為「可憐的恆善討回一個公道」。

Queens Corona Shaolin Temple master Henglin introduces: Corona Shaolin Temple established 1992. Guolin who comes from the People’s Republic of China first sought assistance from the Corona Shaolin Temple. He was offered shelter by Shi Yanchang, together they cultivated Chan (Zen) and practiced the martial arts. A few years later, Guolin and others left to create their own household; they built a Shaolin Temple in Flushing in 1999. Master Henglin believes that the terminal route that Hengshan took has greatly shaken the Buddhist world; Guolin should take responsibility. She was of the opinion that Guolin had confiscated Hengshan’s and other instructors passports, but had not arranged any kind of visas for them, thereby rendering all of them with illegal alien status [the article uses the term “blackened” status]. So Hengshan found himself ill, with no income, and the fact that he had been in the USA for many years with unlawful immigration status lead his emotional state to become even more melancholic, hence leading to his path on the terminal road. Henglin states that even though Guolin was the sponsor for Hengshan’s work visa, Guolin only let Hengshan eat leftovers, leading to Hengshan’s deteriorating health. Over a more recent period, Guolin abused/oppressed Hengshan, finally “forcing” him out of Flushing Shaolin Temple. She stated: Shaolin disciples in the USA have no relatives or friends, we hope that the community can help them, help Hengshan get some justice.

一位曾給法拉盛少林寺捐款，並幫助恒善尋醫問藥的女居士亦稱，恒善患病後血糖過低，需要及時治療才可避免精 神類疾病，果林卻對此漠不關心。她可以幫助沒身分的恒善辦聯邦醫療計劃，卻遭到怕麻煩的果林阻攔，致使本可 獲得公費治療的恒善病況轉差。她稱，果林從不給教練們人工，令武術教練生活困窘，離開少林寺便無法生存。居 士們可憐這些教練，平時偷偷塞給他們一些紅包，才能讓他們能夠在年底寄點錢回家。對於恒善的後事，她甚至懷 疑果林會借此斂財，因而希望社會將對恒善的愛心直接交給到美國料理後事的恒善父母手中。

A previous donor to the Flushing Shaolin Temple who helped Hengshan seek medical aid also said: after Hengshan became ill, his blood sugar levels dropped, requiring timely medical treatment to avoid mental health problems; Guolin was not remotely interested. She tried to help Hengshan, still with illegal immigration status, get on the Union (?) medical plan, but was frustrated in her efforts by the fearful Guolin. This lead to Hengshan losing the public funds available for medical treatment and led to a worsening of his health. She said: Guolin did not allow the martial instructors to work [elsewhere?], which meant that they lived in very hard-pressed conditions; leaving the Shaolin Temple would give them no means of surviving. Local people felt sorry for the instructors, normally secretly giving them red packets [lucky red envelopes of money] so that they could send some money back home for the New Year. As for Hengshan’s funeral, she even suspects that Guolin will use the occasion to collect funds. Therefore she hopes that the community’s goodwill should go directly to Hengshan’s parents who will be in the USA to arrange his funeral.

果林對以上所有指控均表示否認，他稱，不應把佛門弟子個人恩怨加到恒善事件上來，「讓外界看笑 話」。現在主 要的問題，是如何處理好恒善的後事。

Guolin denies all of the above accusations. He said that the internal arguments within the Buddhist sect should not be conflated with Hengshan’s issues, thereby becoming a laughing stock for the outside world. At present the pressing matter is how to arrange Hengshan’s funeral.

[GeneChing]

I knew of Hengshan, but I never met him. I've never met Yanzhang or Henglin either. They sound rather disgruntled. I'm surprised at the statements they are making to the press. Does anyone have direct experience of any of these three? "Clean"shaolin, do you know them?

[BruceSteveRoy]

with all due respect clean shaolin i don't think it is right to chastise the entire shaolin system just bc of your opinion that shi guolin is one of the bad guys. i don't know him so i have no basis for any opinion. I will say this though. you talk about having chinese documents that validate the opinion that shaolin is bad but i think anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of chinese history would know that those documents are suspect. the bias against the shaolin has been around for a very long time. and the documents you have come from a country that is known for its propaganda, misinformation and control of public knowledge. of course there are probably tons of documents like the ones you have but consider the source.

thats just my $.02.

[Iron Cross]

Wow, I am SOOOOOO glad I got out of the whole shaolin scene. In my opinion they are all rather insane. This event kinda just confirms what I already knew. It seems so incredibly pointless to have happened too. All the talk of buddhist compasion and understanding is clearly bunk.

Rich you really need to relax dude. I don't think anyone is connecting your sacred master to this event. He was probably too busy at the time eating babies or doing drugs with the wutang clan or whatever rampant rumors are flying about him now. I really hate the guy but I wouldn't sugest a conneciton nor as someone pointed out he tred to shoot someone at one point.

Seems like whatever is left of shaolin si being eaten away from the inside by a cancer or desease in the form of its own egotistical, idealistic or crazy practitioners. Seeing and experiencing personally some of this crap Yan Ming has done, now seeing what has gone down with Guolins joint and also hearing the stories from china. I am rather convinced shaolin cannot survive or maybe it never did and those that rebuilt the place had no idea what they were doing. Sad really..

I say put aside all the Bs and politics and the hating and ask yourself a simple question. Does any of this stuff make us better people? Seems to me they are all morally bankrupt.

Good on the move rich. heard the place is like 3x as big. Maybe it will give people space and they won't act so insane. Or maybe there will be sufficent air flow so no one else almost dies of heat stroke..

peace

[David Jamieson]

This looks like it is going to get ugly before it gets better.

It is too bad that a death is a catalyst for change in this case.

[nyhakka]

Who said anything about change? It was flawed to begin with, and so it'll stay since there is noone to change it. the Gov't is making too much money to change the issues in Mainland, and the ones here in the states are pretty much lay people now making a living. So they probably don't care about change at this point, just their own schools and situations. And judging from what's coming out can you blame them?

[Songshan]

Sad news and yet another blow to the Shaolin community which should stand for justice and righteousness. A sad fact is that there is a high rate of suicide among the younger generation Chinese in China (check out the Jet Li interview in the Sept/Oct 2006 issue and the basis of the Jet Li foundation). Usually in most investigations of suicide it tends to raise the question(s) “How and why did it happen“? Since we already know the answer to one and not the other question it will definitely leave a dark cloud glooming over Shaolin in the USA. I can only hope that the allegations made are not true. This is not to say that incidents don’t happen in China at Shaolin because they probably do. The problem here is that Shaolin is not so widely common in the USA which tend to spotlight things. Shaolin is in the spotlight right now and has been over the last few years here in America.

I can’t tell you how many times I have tipped my hat to immigrants that come to an entirely different country, not speaking the common language and successfully establish themselves or open businesses. It takes a lot to do that and not to mention lots of sacrifices (like family). So that mixed with the pressure of earning income to make a living can lead to adverse effects…especially if you are injured and make a living as an athlete with your body to earn that income.

I have seen so many people lose focus on why they started training Shaolin all because they got caught up and enthralled with how the monks live their life in America. This has spawned hateful Shaolin critics and caused “tabloid” exposure of Shaolin. If you want to become a monk, fine. If you want to become Buddhist, fine. If you want to live your life like a monk that’s fine too. All I can say is that if you train with one of the monks be righteous, follow the Buddhist beliefs and always help those in need...especially if the ones in need are the ones sweating next you in class.

["Clean"shaolin]

big, big news from China's Shaolin:

The latest update is that he openly denied that the monk who commited suicide is affliated with Shaolin. and stating that the dead one is a "fake Monk" therefore it has nothing to do with Shaolin.

This speaks a lot about Hengshan's teacher "Guolin".

But Yongxin better make it clear about this Joint in Flushing, Guolin's Joint.

for all these poor Chinese immigrants & American Kungfu students' blood money, donating to a joint which they believe to be a sacred place with blessing power toward enlightenment.....

With Yanming, we all know that he is not a monk, (no offense Rich, just stating a fact, has nothing to do with the fact that Yanming does know some good forms.),

but with Guolin, this is big, big news, lots of Chinese newspapers is going to press Yongxin to openly confess that Guolin is NOT A MONK.

Any Guolin's student's here: it would be great to tell him, that the best thing to do, is to openly dethrone from being fake monk, and Karma might be able to forgive him.

Again, this has nothing to do with he's got some good hard qigong.

Just, Simply, stop lying to the world, and to America that YOU are a monk.

He can still teach at a new school without calling it a temple and Chinese parents would still send their kids to him. (I would even consider supporting those who deserves forgiveness....)

But again, this could be just a bull**** self-saving trick that Yongxin is using to save his own ass...

many Buddhists in China believe that if there is such a place called "hell", Yongxin will be there. They've always believed that the dude has no heart at all.

but who the hell knows.....

The best thing is to have a money-kungfu, religion separated Shaolin, or it's going straight down to the toilet...

Gene, you asked about Corona Shaolin and Rich you ask me why I leave Master Shi Yanchang(Guolin & Yanming's first teacher in NY), too many things too disgusting to write here, but I will write them out soon.

Here is Yongxin's Confession:

武僧纽约自杀再添神秘色彩 少林方丈:他是冒充的

少林寺弟子释恒善24日在纽约自杀身亡的消息经媒体报道后，该报访问了少林寺方丈释永信，意外的是，释永信 居然表示，这名武僧根本就不是少林寺的武僧，是有人想破坏少林寺的名誉恶意冒充。 www.6park.com

　　美国媒体日前报道，纽约少林寺一年轻僧人释恒善前不久传因病被赶出山门，由于贫病交集、流离失所，他于 24日午间在法拉盛上吊自杀，被人发现后报警送医抢救，当晚6时被宣布不治。 www.6park.com

　　不过，当东森记者就此事询问少林方丈释永信时，他却语出惊人的说，自杀的根本不是少林寺武 僧。 www.6park.com

　　少林方丈：“没有，那不是少林寺的人。”记者：“不是少林寺的人？”少林方丈：“对，他冒充的，没这回 事，与我们没关系。” www.6park.com

　　当记者再度打到少林武僧团确认说法时，少林武僧团团长说：“我不太清楚。”记者：“他是你的同事吗？” 少林武僧团团长：“不是，不是，这门事不太清楚，不知道，我们不知道什么事。” www.6park.com

　　这起少林僧人自杀事件，已经引起媒体的广泛关注，不过少林寺的态度让外界搞不清楚，到底事实真相如何， 还必须等少林寺说明，才能理清真相。

[CLFNole]

Should this be a suprise to anyone? For the people who think this is "real" shaolin well they get what the pay for. People should do a little research and they would know whats what. DO you want some fries to go all with dai hong kuen?

["Clean"shaolin]

In China, do you know what's really,really going on with Shaolin and many styles of professional MA schools in general.....????????????????????????????????

Most students from the Shaolin temple affliated schools in Henan are kids from very poor, illiterate families like Guolin was.(Guolin too was almost illiterate when he first got to NY, and yet he made a big fool out of himself by trying to teach the Diamond Sutra at his temple....that's when I left him, disgusting.....),

Since the mid 90's, after graduate, these kids either became contract killers, debt-collectors(not the kind we get here over the phone for our credit card debts) or "security guards" in south China.

In Guangzhou alone, a rich city, there are over 40000 "shaolin" graduates working in "businesses", the largest organized crime in the city is the "Henan Martial arts or Shaolin Gang"......

As sad as it is, in the last 2 yrs, there had been at least 4 national or state Sanshou champions, all "shaolin" graduates, were shot by the police....all in published news.

Even one of my "ex"-heroes,(like how Guolin and Yanming were), Coach Qiao lifu, once a honorary coach for the early Shaolin temple, national Sanshou king, one of the first Chinese who fought the Thais in early 80's, were also shot by over 30 police for kidnapping and killing. They actually shot his when he was having sex with a hooker, they were so afraid of his Shaolin Kung fu, he was really, really good.

Like Iron Cross asked Rich, We should all ask ourselves, where is kung fu really going to take us too????????????????

It's China's Karma that to survive, for supply & demand, there is no way to change the "dark" Shaolin situation for now, the kids from the villages around shaolin are bringing bread & butter to their family tables by working in rich cities for "Businesses" as hitmen & killers....for a period of time.

Then Kung Fu will never be able to compete with TKD and Karate, among China's large, civilized cities, as a real "culture", a real "way" of self-cultivation, this is the Karma of Kung fu......so let's not complain about how kung fu is dying......

regardless of how much more effective kung fu is fighting wise......
(maybe technically it "was", when Guoshu was relatively healthier than Wushu before Communists taking over. Now when a whole art that's dominated by low-level, low-classes teachers such as Guolin and fanatic kids followers like many of us here on this board once were, there is no hope for the art to not be supassed by a healthier sport or an art, such as BJJ, Mixed MA as a sport, or true internal arts that really do offer things toward spiritual growth.)

But in the real Zen or Chan way, Karma can be changed too......

Hope we can all serve our parts, in helping kung fu, also helping ourselves,
to figure out, what are the ways to "clean" shaolin, "clean" martial arts, and clean "ourselves"......

Right now the only recommendation for Yongxin is to have kung fu, business, and Buddhism as separated depts, which is what he had been trying to do.......but with no success.....he is the only monk that's not a native of Henan but Anhui.....and i heard that to protect himself being killed by other shaolin "Monks", he had to kill 6 of them through out the years, for a good cause is what i heared.


I really don't know who to believe, but one thing is clear, the MA people in US, we need to stop supporting these "monks" in the states for money,woman and drug.....
Karmically, the will to not support them must exceeds my love of kung fu.......

[Yao Sing]

Can't be true. Everyone knows CMA is just a bunch of forms players that don't learn any REAL fighting moves.

[richard sloan]

Hey Clean- you don't need to apologize. Say what you need to say, that is why there is a forum. And just for Iron Cross's sake, if I decide to reply please don't find me "excited" or uncalm just because I reply, or disagree. It's just a reply back to you on an internet forum and shouldn't be construed as an attack or that I am excited and all RAAAAARRRRGH RAAAARRRRGH.

Since Shi Yan Ming is the only one I have spent significant time with, I can't speak to your claims of Guolin's illiteracy, or the gun incident- I heard it another way- or the yan chang discipleship episode, except to tell you there are more than one version to some of these stories and so I feel that the grain of salt is necessary. I met a lady once who used to go to the Pike St. Temple and she had nothing but glowing praise for SYM. I know he is not illiterate...and I've been with him and heard him recite sutras backwards and forwards, worked with him on our fo fa sen vows and books, sat with him through dharma debates, I know his knowledge is both conversational and fluent in the subject matter. Anyway, there are two major problems people have with Yan Ming. Family, and drinking beer.

Neither of which I have any problem with and if he is redefining the term "monk" I also have no problem with that. To me it is not a static definition and I see no reason why reclusives alone have provenance over a word. I view him as part of a growing trend of engaged monastics. Presently "monk" is the best thing that describes him succinctly and with the most veracity. I know for some of the people coming out of Shaolin and coming here, Ch'an is not important to them. Li Peng flat out states it wasnot his concern he just cared about gong fu. To others, it is more important. As far as I am concerned, celibacy is a lark. I grew up in the hardcore scene so now I know that not drinking for the sake of not drinking is also a lark. People need to examine the reasons. I know some of the older returning monks came back with families, and their sons even became monks. The sutras did not burn at their touch, the lohan statues did not spring to life and devour them...So to me, I don't blame some of the monks and wish they were more open about it. I've been around enough monastics to know how things really are, I mean you should see some of the Catholics. So I never had any grandiose illusions. Never bothered me to see Thich Nat Hahn pop out his cell phone, or his new monks meditate in their leather pumas. But I have seen people get up and leave from one of his dharma talks because of it. I'm overgeneralizing to make a point. But let's take for example the pedophile priests- they do not erase Mother Theresa. Do we say that Catholicism produced both kinds of people? I would say no. In one case I would say that people used Catholicism as a cover for their own internal deviance, whereas in the other, Catholicism was the catalyst for manifestation of all the good Catholicism can manifest.

For me it was important to learn about Ch'an buddhism. I prefer it to be based in the real world, and not locked within an academic process of using some tools people have made up and imposed. I've also been fortunate to travel quite a bit with SYM and I get to see a lot of stuff happen that others do not. Often, when I hear people's criticisms, and when they ask questions which are usually far from innocent and are really more assumptions and already drawn conclusions masqueraded as questions- I am very greatful for this perspective. I have absolutely no doubts about him or his provenance, as it has been repeatedly put to the test- as we have met and talked with other monastics, etc. and I have met people and characters from his past or who he has been involved with.

I'll give you an example. One time people asked Sifu a question. He eluded answering it. Afterwards I overheard the people who asked the question. Obviously they were dissatisfied. Their conclusion was a non sequitor- meaning they came up with a reason why he didn't answer it. To them he must not be able to answer it. But that is not true, he simply refused to answer. This is actually quite common amongst Chinese masters- very often you will hear about masters who "know nothing" but yet these are the gentleman who are the inheritors of known and respected systems. People often wonder also at the character of people who become monks- just like everything else, all kinds of people become monks. People often express shock at the internal divisions and manifestations of such- have they never heard of Hui Neng? How his brothers hounded him and sought to kill him. People like to have unreal monks.

What happened with this disciple in Flushing is very sad. Tragic. Even one would like to say unbelievable and horrible.

I am sure there is a lot going on with this incident and I don't have any desire to comment on it except to say how tragic and sad and that I hope everything works out as it should. Out of respect for his death, I think people should be very careful about what they say. I caught wind of someone saying that because his tongue was not extended he must have been really murdered and then hung there. But that is meaningless- the tongue means "nothing" as a Dr. friend of mine said. Guolin may be a horrible person, but an internet forum and rumor mill is not going to offer a trial or prove anything in this matter.

But I think people get a little beyond the scope in these kinds of things. Cars kill people every day. They can be cast in a way that would make them look to be great evil. But the car is a car. It can also do great good. Without ambulances and fire trucks people would die and suffer. This is not said to discount what happened at all but to provide some perspective to those who want to blame this on Shaolin. It's just that while Shaolin has been put to poor and horrible purposes, so it has been put to good.

I have seen a lot of bad things come out of Shaolin, but either above or in another post you asked where gong fu (Ch'an) is taking us. For me, it has taken me to Trinidad, Mexico, California, to prisons and prisoners with no hope, I have personally made impact in Jamaica, in NYC...we have changed people's lives in a good way and made a difference in all these places.

It's funny, I used to do a toy drive, which proved to be the source of endless ridicule even to this day it seems a vein people like to strike. Now there is no toy drive, and people also ridicule- it's all about the money, what do the monks do for people. People always say these monks are all about money- maybe some are. But I know standing right next to the student bagging about money, is a student who can not afford to pay and has not paid ever, yet was invited to train because it could help them. Sometimes even the student bagging about money is wearing a set of robes they did not pay for because for whatever reason they could not afford them or what have you. A push for money is not seen as an effort to assist De Yang, for example, but is seen as a money grab. Again, this is just from my perspective.

Anyway, like I said, I hope that whatever happened in this tragic case, it's resolution is just, dignified, and serves some good purpose if possible.