Taijiquan's health (or longevity) benefits overrated?

[origenx]

Are Taijiquan's health (or longevity) benefits perhaps overrated?

I mean, here's some very famous Taijiquan-style founders and lineage holders and their approximate lifespans:

Yang Lu-Chan ~73
Wu Yu-Hsiang ~68
Sun Lu-Tang ~70
Wu Chien-Chuan ~72
Yang Cheng-Fu ~53

I wouldn't consider any of these guys particularly long-lived. But maybe they added more "life to their years" than years to their lives? In other words, never got sick much or spend their last days dying in agony of a terminal illness?

Otherwise, strictly for health, might one be better off simply engaging in some non-martial qigong or herbal practices? I mean, honestly, in today's world, the bigger threats are more health and environmental, than hand-to-hand combative, in nature.

[dre_doggX]

something to think about.

Andre Lashley

[RAF]

That's a real eye opener. However, I thought about that issue after reading Tim Cartmel's book on Xing Yi Qi Gong. Many of the practitioners cited in the text lived well into their 80s and 90s.

The best explanation I heard from a well informed source is that those you cited are a small sample of high level practitioners. In the West, we never hear of the high level, less than famous practitioners. According to my source who is connected into the Taji practitioners of Yang style in China, there are many high level practitioners who never made it to the public forum but lived long and productive lives.

Be interesting piece of research for some upcoming sociologist and/or epidemiologist. Any takes

[EARTH DRAGON]

again as raf said I think your p[lacing judgement on only a small few, I once trained with a famous hung gar master ting fong wong, and although he was a master he smoked and drank a lot. So the pointI trying to make is just because you practise Tai Chi you must live Tai Chi to reap the benifeits. One can be a tai chi master but if his lifestyle does not coincide with his exsistence then it is counter productive. However somne masters in my lineage lived well into their 100's

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[Braden]

You can't measure the health benefits in years like that. If you're involved in good internal style practice, you should be feeling health benefits very early on. People who are not involved in such practice talk alot about the health benefits, but don't understand them at all. It's not a magic elixir that turns you into an immortal, and invulnerable to any affliction; it's a practice that lets you understand and relate better to your body. The health benefits that spring directly from that are remarkable, and must be experienced to be understood.

[Fu-Pow]

I believe the only conclusive study on Taiji and health (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure Braden will disagree anyways) is the one that showed that older people who practice Taiji are much less likely than others to fall and break their hip.

Like someone pointed out, health is more than just how you excercise ie Taiji. You've got diet, lifestyle, enviromental effects, cardiovascular fitness, to think about too. If you get out every day and get some excercise via Taiji or Hung Gar or ballet or jogging or whatever you are probably doing better than 9 out of 10 americans.

Peace

Fu-Pow



"Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

-Lee Koon Hung,
CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

[Zhin]

What was the average life expectancy for people at that time?


Japan currently has the highest life expectancy for men in the world at 76. (Kind of amazing I might add, considering the level of smoking and drinking going on). In the 1800's to early 1900's in china, my guess is the life expectancy for men was averaging 50 years old.

Mah Liu Liang lived til he was 98, and his wife died when she was 96.

[kungfu cowboy]

With all the smoking and drinking in Japan, new figures will be calculated. 76 is hardly old anyway. Nothing compares to geologic time, and I for one am looking forward to as short an old elderly existence as possible. Yuck.

[Anthroman]

Just remember that average life expectancy is a tricky number. Its skewed heavily by the fact that in most industrial nations, such as japan, infant mortality has greatly decreased.
Also as far as this question is concerned I'd be more interested in looking at quality of these peoples years then just quantity alone.
Anthroman

[Repulsive Monkey]

the age thing is not enough evidence to say that the health benefits are over-rated. However someone like Yang Lu-chen who inaugurated Yang family Taiji could of maybe shown a few more years maybe. However again as stated 73 back in the 19th century in Henan provice probably was seen as old, and its the quality of life too don't forget. Yang Cheng-fu, his grandson, died in his early 50's and was known to be indulgent in food, drink and women yet his skills (eventually!) were of a high level yet towards his 50's his health did decline. As one modern day living Master though, Tung Tsai Liang who by his own admission drank himself to near death up to his mid forties, yet by taking up Taiji under Prof.Cheng Man-ching turned his health around, and is still alive and practicing at 101 years old.

[patriot]

Don't forget Genetics is the main determinant of longevity (http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/08/27/longevity.participants/index.html)

Tai Chi cannot alter your genetic makeup.

[HuangKaiVun]

My paternal grandmother was so unathletic and so undertrained that she had trouble walking in her 60s.

At the recommendation of her doctors, she joined the Taijiquan park classes in Tainan.

She lived into her 80s and her health improved greatly.

[Repulsive Monkey]

would not be seen as the main ingredient to longevity. In Chinese Medicine one's Jing would highlight the initial foundation in life as to potential quality of health, but even with that there are many Master's whose initial Jing was weak yet through constant practise maintained long fruitful lives.

[origenx]

And off on a related tangent - why don't we just throw Bruce Lee in there at 32!!!

I always wondered how a TCM would have diagnosed his fainting spells and ultimate demise... Obviously, Western medicine came up far short in giving him a clean bill of health.

[patriot]

YCF practised Tai Chi at a very young age and died at 53, as already mentioned.

The 2 sons of the great Chen Fake died in their 50's or younger.

If these great masters can't prolong their lives with Tai Chi, how can novices like you and I?