Taijiquan's health (or longevity) benefits overrated?

[wu_de36]

some things you just can't beat. death is among those. tai chi might be good for you, but if a brain tumor is in the cards, what can you do?

not to mention the other countless environmental and hereditary factors.

Just out of curiousity, how did Wang Shu Jin die?
He was pretty "unhealthy" by Western standards.

[JerryLove]

Actually, Scientists thing there are narrowing down the gene (it's in Chromosome 4) or genes responsable for unusual longevity.

Centurians (people living to 100) tend to run in families and all be of similar genelogical descent (European descent), so it's Genetic.

The best we can do, it seems, is try to make sure we live to *our* max age (which may be 80), and to try to stay healthy throughout.

[Nexus]

Quality is more important then Quantity in my opinion. Would you rather have ONE "100" dollar bill or 50 "1" dollar bills!

Ok ok, so that comparison is not exactly the same but its not as if the taijiquan is taking years off of your life. I believe its the quality of the life that improves. I have fellow practioners in taijiquan who haven't had a cold or flu in 10 years of practice and one of them if I remember correctly had constant allergy problems and was frequently sick.

- Nexus

<font size="1">"Time, space, the whole universe - just an illusion! Often said, philosophically verifiable, even scientifically explainable. It's the <font color="blue">'just'</font> which makes the honest mind go crazy and the <font color="blue">ego</font> go berserk." - Hans Taeger</font>

[crumble]

"The best we can do, it seems, is try to make sure we live to *our* max age (which may be 80), and to try to stay healthy throughout."

Agreed.

There is a big difference between being alive and living. By being physically active, the quality of your life is usually higher -- but it isn't some magic elixer like someone said. It isn't a guarantee: you can also wear out your body prematurely, injure yourself, etc.

That said, a lot of these martial arts experts were active right until the day they died. They could kick your ass at 60, 70, 80... They lived fully and then they died completely! They didn't spend years and years in some nursing home limbo, being alive but not living.

People want to belive that martial arts (esp. internal ones) are going to postpone death. Even "masters" can convince themselves of this, like one 80 year old guy a friend told me about who talked about how full and dark his hair was, as proof of the health benefits of taiji -- and then he died. He was buried with a full head of dark hair.

70-80 years is what most of us got. What you do with it is up to you... and there are LOTS of things you could be doing! Martial arts is just one of them and people should take responsibility for their decision. :D

-crumble

[mliddament]

At the start of the 1900s average life expectency in China was just over 30 years.

I would guess the majority of the people named by the original poster did well for their times.

[kungfu cowboy]

Reality is El-weird-O. Is Charles Nelson Reilly still kicking?

[GLW]

But the question is what did they die of...

For example, I am not sure what Yang Chengfu died of but it sounds a lot like dysentery or something equally nasty.

At the same time, you had smallpox, hepatitis, yellow fever, scarlet fever, plague, and countless other quite natural biological disasters.

These types of illnesses, when they hit, take out entire villages...starting with the weak ones first and eventually taking out those who are stronger.

Then you have things like starvation, food poisoning, wars, etc...

So, dying at 53 in the 1930's during a tumultuous period of China's history is not nearly as remarkable even for a martial arts master as living through it.

You can't say much either way. It is like the long distance runner who a few years ago died at around 52...of a heart attack. Many said "See, he ran and touted the positive effects of running on life expectancy...and he still died at 52."

However, in his family, there was not a single male who had ever lived beyond 42. His own father had died at around 40...so in that light, his lifetyle probably gave him 10 more years. They were 10 100% healthy years and when he had the attack...it was instanteous.

You just can't say.

[Ky-Fi]

Yes, Taiji, qigong, excercise, meditation, good diet, etc.---those things help you make the most of what you have to work with, but WHAT you have to work with is largely due to genetics.

[dre_doggX]

Its good that tai chi can make you stronger
Chen Fake and Chen Wan Ting and many other masters were known for have incredible strength in their old age. but still I think that it would be better if martial arts would add years to you life.
I think Gichin Funakoshi of Shotokan karate got sick one night died at 82. But was still very strong the day before.

Andre Lashley

[Kevin Wallbridge]

Just because you train internal martial arts doesn't mean that the rest of your lifestyle doesn't matter. Yang Chengfu was an overweight heavy-eating heavy-drinking diabetic. Small wonder he expired.

Yang Luchan was ancient during a time that saw 10's of millions of Chinese dying from disease, starvation and endemic warfare, not to mention opium addiction. A man of 73 in Europe of the time would have been venerable. At the time, infant mortality was very high, but lifespan was still very low on average.

"The heart of the study of boxing is to have natural instinct resemble the dragon" Wang Xiangzai

[Repulsive Monkey]

I thought this thread was to do with Tai Chi Masters and their examples of the health benefits of Tai Chi? So did someone mention Bruce Lee? Bar an intial outset in life where he was taught basics in Tai Chi he rejeceted the internal Martail arts pretty much so his health matters are purely down to the benefits of the arts he chose to concentrate on, mainly Wing Chung and on into JKD. It was quoted by a friend of his and now a recognised Tai Chi master that Bruce said he didn't have the time or patience for it.

[Repulsive Monkey]

you can use the word genetics if you like, but I prefer to view the basis of all constitutional energy in the body (i.e. the foundation of the body) as being (Pre-natal)Jing. For example some would say that body deformities would be classified as this and that strain of genetic deformity, where as TCM would say that it is purely Kidney Jing Deficiency (by and large). Jing is viewed as the basic raw energy which is refined into Qi and then further into Shen, whereas genes are recognized as the DNA and RNA cellular informational blue-prints which classify the body components. One might say that is the quality of Jing which determines whether or not genetic deformities take place in the body. Thus rendering Jing as the original foundational source of health in the body, possibly?

[grounded]

for me at least the point is not how long you live but how well you live. Taiji makes one centered and focused. Who cares if you live longer? Practicing Taiji to prolong life is like practicing Shao-lin to kick somebody's ass. You can do it sure, but this is not the purpose of the art.

[Repulsive Monkey]

I totally concur with you but I was just delving into a specific area about Genetics and Jing, thats all, a subtle fine point but by no means the most overriding pricincple i.e. quality of health.

[Nexus]

I think we have seen more opinions in this thread than any substantial facts regarding taiji and its benefits upon longevity. Although it is agreed upon by most practioners that it enhances the quality of life, that really isn't the question here. It would be great if it enhanced the quantity with that, but lets take a look at how it actually does do that...

If before you begin doing taiji, your body is imbalanced, potential energy issues are taking place, for instance the meridians are closing off with age, those that coresspond with maybe the liver and the kidneys. So, with your average american eating habits of McDonalds and excessive drinking/smoking your heart/lungs/kidneys/liver begin to deteriorate and there is no pathways for healing energy to reach those organs in the most natural of ways so they continue to degrade.

Had you done taiji, those meridians would have openened, allowing healing energy to access the organs naturally and efficiently without blockages which hinder the healing progress. Maybe this is why you see some taiji practitioners who used to have allergies, yearly flu, bronchitis and even asmtha have things to say like, 'I haven't had the flu in 8 years.' or 'My asmtha is no longer a problem after just 3 years of taiji!' etc etc.

So in the sense that these dangers could potentially kill you later in life such as having asthma, hence bad longs, and as meridians close off with age, that gets worse and you possibly die from it.

As the natural healthy state of the body improves so does the longevity. It's plain and simple in front of the nose of any practioner who has witnessed improved health from taijiquan.

Happy practicing to all of you, make a resolution for a day this week to do an extra 30 minutes :)

- Nexus

<font size="1">"Time, space, the whole universe - just an illusion! Often said, philosophically verifiable, even scientifically explainable. It's the <font color="blue">'just'</font> which makes the honest mind go crazy and the <font color="blue">ego</font> go berserk." - Hans Taeger</font>