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Thread: Taijiquan's health (or longevity) benefits overrated?

  1. #46
    Royal Dragon Guest
    Actually, as far as nutrition goes, it COULD be argued that they had BETTER nutrition in the past since they had not invented food additives yet. Also, many traditional diets WERE infact just about perfect. Mostly fruits and Veggie's. Meats back then were NOT full of steroids and genetically enginered growth hormons.

    From what I have seen the hunter gatherer societys had it even better, because they lived on fruits and veggies for thier first few meals of the day, and ate thier meats late in the day, after hard exertion (caused from hunting it) when a high protine intake would be most benifficial.
    Plus, a few hours of native dance every other night or so put them in MUCH greater cardiovascular condition than the "Caveman" of today.

    I submit that the average life span of 30! claimed by science today is NOT only false, but pure proaganda desgined to foster greater support FOR modern science. Based on what I have seen, in theory the ancient societys (especially hunter gatherers) should have been much healthier, stronger and LONGER lived than we are today.

    Yes, they had many bad diseases, but we have Aids, Cancer, Asthma and cardio vascular diease, all things said to be CAUSED by modern living.

    As I said before, my Grandmother lived a LONG and healthy life up untill her last year or so. She avoided doctors like the plague, and had little in the way of modern convineances her whole life. She live much the same as her ancestors have for hundreds of years. The ONLY difference, was the use of a car instead of a horse. BUT, she STILL walked to the grocery store and took care of all her needs on foot. the car was rarely used, and then mostly for a Sunday drive. She even walked to church, in ALL types of weather.

    She died at the age of 96. So don't tell me nutrition is better now or the average life span was only 30 before modern science came along, I don't buy it!!! At best, we know WHY things work the way they do, but little has been done to improve.

    RD


    Check out the Royal Dragon Web site

    http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com

  2. #47
    PingAnTu Guest

    Daoist gah gah

    Internal martial arts is infected with the old Daoist illusion of immortality. It's funny. All of these masters of the internal elixer are dead now. It's not just Taiji, it's also Bagua and Xingyi. Unfortunately, one of BK Franzis's top students died of a heart attack on an airplane in middle age.

    The real value of internal martial arts is in the quality of life that it gives you coupled with the martial prowess. It's fun. It's all about exploration. It's all about enjoying the learning process and swimming in the brilliant martial principles. If you practice diligently, can it stave off earlier problems that would have killed you eventually? I think so. But at the end of the day, when your number is called... You're dead. Period. Same with Qigong. Same with Zen. Same with Yoga. Same with... well, everything.

    "When I fought the foreign boxer in Kyoto, I jumped up and punched him in the face. This is effective against people who are taller than you." -- Motobu Choki

  3. #48
    Braden Guest
    RD - you don't have to speculate. There's still a number of true hunter-gatherer societies, and plenty of third-world cultures without the taint of modern science in their food. You can visit them yourself and determine their nutritional level.

    Personally, I'll take trace levels of hormones over trichinosis ten times out of ten.

  4. #49
    Royal Dragon Guest

    I would LOVE to do that!!!!

    Man, As soon as I can I'm gettin myself pushed out of a plane and dumped into the heart of Borneo!!! I hear the native girls are hotties!!!

    Seriously though, that kind of thing appeals to me anyway.


    Check out the Royal Dragon Web site

    http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com

  5. #50
    origenx Guest
    nexus, plasticsquirrel - So, maybe Daoism and qigong are the real keys to longevity, not taijiquan. Or perhaps a balance of the two. Because there is a difference. Taijiquan does involve the expenditure of energy, at least from a sheer physical standpoint. Whereas Daoism and qigong are more focused on the collection and absorption of energy. Although, I'm sure there's some crossover in there. So perhaps you need both - to intake energy and expel toxins/wastes.

    Point is, much of the longevity claims are anecdotal, and there are many examples both one way or the other. What they really need to do is take some large samples and then draw some statistical correlations, if any. And being careful to identify and isolate ALL factors, like diet, lifestyle, other practices (e.g. - Daoism, qigong, etc.), relationships, family genetic history, etc...

    Is it even possible to really extend a possibly genetically-predetermined life? Or to just live a healthier life? I don't think this question has really been scientifically answered here yet

  6. #51
    Royal Dragon Guest
    If you are genetically able to live 80 years, and your DON'T practice Taoist longevity methods or Taji, you'll only get 70 years out of your life, and the end ones will be bad.

    If you DO Taoist practices and Taji, you get all 80 years and die easy.

    Does that sum it up?

    Royal Dragon

    "Chi is Chinese for Spinach"


    Check out the Royal Dragon Web site

    http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com

  7. #52
    JerryLove Guest
    Master Ma [Hey, he taught my teacher] 98, Wu Ying Hua 91 Wu Tu Nan 105 Yang Yu Ting 95, Jung Tzan Fung 99, Chang Ting Chen 101.

    Source "Wu Style Taiji - A history from China to the United States" by Li Li-Qun, appeared in "Kungfu - Wushu Quogong Mellinium edition" Jan 2000 pg 104

  8. #53
    Rory Guest
    wutunan died at 107

  9. #54
    Repulsive Monkey Guest

    Yep

    all 107 years did he exist for. I've got a video of him doing form and an interview with him too. Look liked a decent fellow.

  10. #55
    origenx Guest
    Another good question is what exactly did all these masters, especially some of the shorter-lived ones I had mentioned in my initial post, die of? What exactly were their causes of death?

    Anybody know?

  11. #56
    RAF Guest
    Perhaps it isn't taiji itself that affects the aging and health process bur rather it is simply a form of exercise one can consistently play throughout their life.

    Interesting article below documents the reversal of aging through exercies:

    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/2001...l/youth_1.html

    Maybe we put too high expectations on taiji?

  12. #57
    JerryLove Guest
    No, I agree with you. The big thing about Taiji (health wise) is that it is a low impact workout good for resperation, bloodflow, and most other things any good low-impact workout is good for.

    In marticular Taiji is nice in that it works the entire body without being stressfull to the body (Chen aside). Taiji also has the meditative effects built in.

    But I don't see, healthwise, that it's something magical or overly special... Except I never had any luck fighting with my water polo skills.

  13. #58
    toddbringewatt Guest
    Overrated by whom?

    Five examples are not enough.

    Also, this aside, no one can overlook the importance of diet, air quality and water quality. EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!

    Maybe the guys you listed were chain smoking Twinkie freaks.

    ;)

    may the force be with you

  14. #59
    RAF Guest
    On second thought, maybe there is something special about taijiquan besides fighting:

    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/2001.../taichi_1.html

    Maybe the accumulated wisdom of an older culture still has something to teach us about aging gracefully.

    Too bad they aren't doing a study on bagua or xing yi.

  15. #60
    Join Date
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    ttt 4 2014

    1,400 residents pass 100-year milestone
    2014-09-30 09:08 Shanghai Daily Web Editor: Qian Ruisha


    Shanghai's oldest resident, 115-year-old Li Suqing (center), poses for a photograph at home yesterday, flanked by her daughter, Tian Yulan, 74, and son-in-law, Gong Jingfa, 76. — Zhang Suoqing

    Shanghai now has more than 1,400 centenarians, with the city's oldest resident 115 years old.

    This is thanks to healthy lifestyles, a sound medical system and care from their families, the Shanghai Gerontological Society said yesterday.

    A total of 1,407 centenarians were registered in the city at the end of 2013, with 365 added as of June 30 this year, according to the society.

    The society said it did not have a precise figure for the number of centenarians who have died this year, but that Shanghai has at least 1,400 centenarians.

    While Shanghai's residents who reach the 100 milestone may differ in backgrounds, many share similarities, according to the society.

    Most are broad-minded, even-tempered, not fussy about their food, don't smoke, get a good night's sleep and exercise regularly, according to society officials.

    Typically, they live in harmonious relations with their families and are well looked after, said the society.

    Genes are also a factor, it added.

    Jing'an, Xuhui and Huangpu districts boast the largest number of centenarians per 100,000 people in the city.

    "Downtown areas like Jing'an have higher percentages of centenarians because of better medical treatment, living conditions and diet, which offset factors like pollution," said Sun Pengbiao, secretary general of the society.

    There were 9.8 centenarians per 100,000 people in Shanghai at the end of 2013, up 1 from 2012.

    The city's oldest resident is 115-year-old Li Suqing. She lives with one of her daughters, a former nursing worker who cares for her, and son-in-law.

    She has topped the list of "10 Shanghai Female Longevity Stars" for seven years.

    Li, who likes playing with her 6-year-old great-grandson and watching television with him, swears by milk, eggs and walnut powder in her daily diet.

    Meanwhile, Xu Renqing, a mere stripling at 104 years old, was named one of 10 Shanghai Male Longevity Stars at an awards ceremony.

    "I have a good mindset and I am very happy today to be here, thanks to the government's care," the Xuhui resident said.

    The former dye factory worker liked trading in shares and was still speculating on the stock market when he was 100.

    Shanghai has one centenarian couple, Xu Yunxiang, 101, and Zhao Damei, 103, who live in a care home in the Pudong New Area.

    They met when Xu was only 10 and married 11 years later.

    The average life expectancy of Shanghainese is just under 82 years and six months — the highest in China.

    Wang Chuanfu, former director of the Huadong Hospital and an expert in gerontology, gave tips on achieving longevity.

    Seniors should eat mild foods — lots of vegetables and not too much salt, and take exercise every day, with 30 minutes of walking, tai chi or swimming recommended, said Wang.

    Smoking is a no-no, while a little wine is recommended, as is traditional Chinese medicine for conditioning.

    An optimistic attitude and regular routine are the most important factors, Wang said.
    a little wine...hmmm, need to add that.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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