Loud City
Registered User
THOSE PIGS SHOULD BE FIRED AND FREE PUNCHES TAKEN ON THEM kc
A Fool is Born every Day !
Itinerant practitioner
The theif indeed has to be arrested.
But there was unreasonable use of force there. Punching in the face displays a lack of tactical training and not to mention lack of the ability to keep cool.
If a cop can't keep cool, s/he's just a thug in a uniform. Yes, they are people too and they feel too, but anger and seeking to inflict pain beyond what is necessary to do your job put's you in a profile of not really belonging on a police force.
Even though you (police) are arresting folks in tense situations everyday you have to remember that the people you arrest are the same people that you serve.
If we can't stem aggresiveness through correct training in those positions of authority, then chaos comes to play. Police are supposed to be righteous. there are too many examples of this type of behaviour coming out everywhere and regularly.
So, what training aspect do you think is lacking with this guy that he resorts to punching a subdued person in the face?
Kung Fu is good for you.
Re Member
MK - Does this relate to the recent happenings regarding the Sean Bell shooting that has gotten so much press lately?
TuG.
Embrace your enemy, for he is not - he is just confused.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It is very hard to unleash the dragon and then put it back in the box without being devoured in the process."
-Sifu Abel
The top monkey boxer!
If those guys were cops, I think they did fine. They didn't have to punch him but I feel it was still within reason. He was resisting arrest. He was yelling and screaming that he could not breathe. Does that sound strange?
Registered User
Given that he was being smothered and knee-locked, no, not so strange.Originally Posted by Flying-Monkey
On the other hand, screw him.
"My only 'aesthetic' is to be the guy who's NOT lying down on the ground broken." - WaterDragon
Registered User
Well,
At least the cops did not shoot 50 times as was done to some unarmed guys in a car @ 2 weeks ago in NYC.
The media likes to keep psycho sick stuff like that local.
mickey
Last edited by mickey; 12-09-2006 at 05:33 PM.
The top monkey boxer!
His face was in close-quarters with the cops body, but he wasn't being smothered. He was winded from resisting. He was subdued and taken away.
Why was he resisting?
Registered User
I'll go with "because he's an idiot" but I'm just guessing.
"My only 'aesthetic' is to be the guy who's NOT lying down on the ground broken." - WaterDragon
Restore the Constitution
I'm guesssing it's 50% natural reaction to being manhandled and 50% trying to get away after committing a crime.
Why are people surprised when criminals make an effort to get away with their crimes?
Registered User
Those guys were rent a cops...store security on "Shoplift detail", No way they were "Plain Cloths".
If they were real, they would not have been telling people to call 911.
Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.
For the Women:
+
=
& a
even if you win ...
actually i wouldnt be suprised to learn that they were just store employees.
im not saying that cops arent above losing their temper and ****ing up, theres a lot of truth to what dave was saying, but it would take a really really dumb cop to do it in front of all those witnesses.
where's my beer?
Registered User
Yeah, store security...with Cuffs.
Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.
For the Women:
I train UFC.
Unfortunately I am involved in that stuff more often than I'd like. I work as security and coordinate with loss prevention who do perform arrests and handcuffing. These are my observations.
1.) These guys making the arrest have no experience and no training. Three guys to deal with one? Maybe, but when you have that kind of control in a standing position a leg sweep should be in order. Also, limited knowledge of wrist control and locks from that position. No concept of applying pressure on the ground via either said achieved locks or body weight.
2.) Punching to the face...wow...that's is assault unless being attacked...that guy was restrained, albeit poorly and tentatively, but restrained nonetheless. If I or an undercove guy do that without severe attacks occuring against us, we lose our jobs and probably end up in court.
3.) Never listen to the guy you're grabbing...it will be non stop, you're hurting me, you're breaking my arm, you're twisting my wrists, the cuffs are too tight, I have to go to the bathroom, I have a ride waiting for me, get this bag off my head I can't breathe...These guys, and anyone in that position should know how to apply proper force via all the methods of restraint without seriously hurting someone...bruised or even cut forearms from handcuffs is not that big of a deal.
4.) If you've retreived the product and the guy is getting really violent and you obviously cannot control him, let him go. If you are the police that is different, if he has done something serious, that is different, but petty shoplifting isn't worth a potential injury or liability.
That video should be used in training classes to highlight both the potential environmental aspects of the job and other people around (I know a guy that was ko'd by a bystander and another that was run over by a buddy of the person he was grabbing), and the video should be used to highlight all the things you shouldn't do.
That said, someone on drugs will complicate things but those guys were just plain ignorant as to how to do their job.
A unique snowflake
Furthr
RD,
Just what I was thinking. Store security, hardly a "cop."
A bit rough, and poorly trained, but not way over the line with respect to use of force issues.
Somebody needs to train them before they hurt somebody or themselves though.
And WP has it right. Never listen to the yahoo you're restraining. Once the situation has calmed down, you can come back to the issue later, but the first item is to control what's going on.
"In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell
"Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli
"A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli
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