Feeman Ong's training Formulas saved.

[Piercinghammer]

Hello all:

I have noticed threads for a while discussing Master Ong. I was in his system some years ago and moved
on to other things after joining the military. One of the things I did was study Chinese herbs. I moved back to the Akron area and found that Master Ong had passed on.When I was asking around I made mention of my
herbal training, several people started giving me their stashes of herbs to look at. I was actually able to identify all the medicines. Some things took me several years. It was kind of a hobby study when I had nothing going on. I cataloged all of the ingredients of all the formulas given too me. The Big hand hot and cold, small hand, bruise herb, there where two types of this. One was a deep bruise, big body liniment, big body pill, small body pill, cut herb, internal injury pill and the endurance herb. Some of the ingredients like bear paw are not really available anymore, My friends in Chinatown just kind of laugh when I ask.

I have seen hundreds of formulas, these are good, a twist on some other traditional shaolin formulas. But I have seen better formulas also.
I enjoyed working on them. I will not publish these formulas. I know that these particular formulas can no longer be obtained. As a friendly gesture I thought I would make a post and mention to students of Master Ongs martial art that I am making these training formulas available to them. I keep hundreds of lbs. of herbs at my kung fu studio in Akron and fill orders for iron palm medicine and dit da jow for people on a regular basis.
Some of the people that read this will say "impossible" some of the herbs where ground up
Well, I'm good! it's hard to hide stuff from me.
I will also mention whoever the person was who did prepared the herbs was a craftsman.
you can e-mail me at MantisBxr@aol.com

Thanks

Mike Biggie
7 Star Praying Mantis, Hong Kong branch
Choy li fut, Hung sing branch
Yang tai chi

[MonkeyKingUSA]

Mike,
Nice to see you post here!

Friends,
I have known Mike for twenty years and he is the most knowledgeable Chinese herbalist that I know. My students and I use his dit da jow for Iron Palm training. His rates are really reasonable too.

Richard A. Tolson
http://www.angrymonkeyfist.com

[kal]

Hello,
Thanks for the interesting post.
Would this Iron Palm medicine be the same as that used by the Green Dragon teachers (Gene Chicoine and John Allen)? I believe that they were students of Master Ong at one point.

[Piercinghammer]

kal:
In a way yes and in a way no. After the break up of Allen and Chicoine from master Ong they where cut off from the supplier of this type of medicine. They had a supply the could use for a few months. This was in the mid to late 70's. Chicoine did some traveling and found an herbalist named Peter Chan from Chan Ning Tong in San Francisco. Mr Chicoine tried to have master Ong's formulas duplicated but it didn't happen. Peter Chan had his own formulas that Chicoine and Allen used until the early 90's when Mr Chan retired and closed his shop. Peter Chan was a dear friend of mine and passed these formulas too me. they are very good also. Since then the formulas that have come my way from these groups of course have been taken apart weighed and cataloged. The formulas that they use today are different from say 1994. They are good but they also seem to be trying to imitate the old formulas of Master Ong's. They dont quite have it.
So Green dragons and Allen's formulas are different, but I think they still love the old formulas, as do I.

Thanks
Mike Biggie

[Mukei]

Mike ! your the Man ......

Good to see you on . I'm Happy you have made the time to come on the FORUM, and Set the record straight . I support you and your school ..... I hope to see on more often . Mukei

[kal]

kal:
In a way yes and in a way no. After the break up of Allen and Chicoine from master Ong they where cut off from the supplier of this type of medicine. They had a supply the could use for a few months. This was in the mid to late 70's. Chicoine did some traveling and found an herbalist named Peter Chan from Chan Ning Tong in San Francisco. Mr Chicoine tried to have master Ong's formulas duplicated but it didn't happen. Peter Chan had his own formulas that Chicoine and Allen used until the early 90's when Mr Chan retired and closed his shop. Peter Chan was a dear friend of mine and passed these formulas too me. they are very good also. Since then the formulas that have come my way from these groups of course have been taken apart weighed and cataloged. The formulas that they use today are different from say 1994. They are good but they also seem to be trying to imitate the old formulas of Master Ong's. They dont quite have it.
So Green dragons and Allen's formulas are different, but I think they still love the old formulas, as do I.

Thanks
Mike Biggie

Many thanks for the quick reply.

I remember an old iron palm video from Green Dragon back in the 1980s. Mr Choicoine emphasised several times that the formula needed to follow their iron plam training was highly secret. He mentioned 2 or 3 times about the lengths he was taking to keep it secret, including sourcing it from three separate suppliers (so that no single supplier could find it out) as well as grinding th herbs to powder to disguise them. Given the timescale you mentioned, would this mean that they were referring to Peter Chan's formula? I vaguely remember hearing that their formula either came from or was modified by a Master Chang. Would this be Chang Dung Sheng of Shuai Chiao?

[Piercinghammer]

kal:

Video tape from the 80's would be Peter Chans formula, If I remember correctly the closing date of Chan Ning Tong was maybe 94-95. I have no Idea who the new supplier is, but I have looked at Chicoine's new medicine a dozen times its a large formula similar to Master Ong's but overdone, far more herbs in it than are needed. Actually like two formulas combined. Its Ok. I have seen different grades of quality in certain herbs
among the dozen or so batches. The idea of having different suppliers fill the formula to keep it secret. I can't really see that as accurate. The formulas are not that big a deal, most Chinese pharmacists don't care what
your dit da jow formula is. They are generally busy treating people with health problems of some sort and that is their main priority. The statement about splitting the formula up, is more for public consumption.The"ooh, ahh", factor. People eat that up. Nothing too far out in the formulas. Everything in their formulas I keep several lbs of. However Peter Chans is very different and I consider it a true iron Palm formula. Very good if not one of the best.

As far as Grandmaster Chang Tung Sheng. I don't believe he any interest Iron palm. If the formula was Grandmaster Changs , there would not have been a change in the 90's it would still be the same formula as prior to 94-95. not a different formula when a new supplier was found The two formulas are completely different.
As far as the Green dragon group, they where getting the same formula and the change up time was the same. Frankly I have lost interest in looking at their formulas. Just remember the people that run the world could not keep the secrets of the atomic bomb from leaking out. Do you really think the recipe for a liniment will be kept under more secrecy.

I guess the reason for mentioning this on a forum like this is the thought, as all of these people become older and depart. Let everyone know there are people who have taken the time to keep track of things. I have refused to let things get lost.


Mike Biggie
7 Star Praying Mantis, Hong Kong Branch
Choy li fut, Hung Sing Branch
Yang tai Chi

[kal]

kal:
In a way yes and in a way no. After the break up of Allen and Chicoine from master Ong they where cut off from the supplier of this type of medicine. They had a supply the could use for a few months. This was in the mid to late 70's. Chicoine did some traveling and found an herbalist named Peter Chan from Chan Ning Tong in San Francisco. Mr Chicoine tried to have master Ong's formulas duplicated but it didn't happen. Peter Chan had his own formulas that Chicoine and Allen used until the early 90's when Mr Chan retired and closed his shop. Peter Chan was a dear friend of mine and passed these formulas too me. they are very good also. Since then the formulas that have come my way from these groups of course have been taken apart weighed and cataloged. The formulas that they use today are different from say 1994. They are good but they also seem to be trying to imitate the old formulas of Master Ong's. They dont quite have it.
So Green dragons and Allen's formulas are different, but I think they still love the old formulas, as do I.

Thanks
Mike Biggie

Mike,
There is a seller on eBay called Shen Martial Arts (http://stores.ebay.com/SHEN-MARTIAL-ARTS) who sells a "Chan Ning Kong" dit da jow. Is this the same formula that you are referring to above? (Peter Chan formula?) And can you recommend Shen Martial Arts as a genuine producer of these medicines?

[Piercinghammer]

Kal:

Shen purchased a couple of bags of dit da jow and Iron palm medicine from me a while back with permission to re-sell. So yes I can recommend Shen as a producer, because I made them.

Thanks

Mike Biggie
7 Star Praying Mantis, Hong Kong Branch
Choy Li Fut, Hung Sing Branch
Yang Tai Chi