Training for "The Street"

[Knifefighter]

Many people make the claim the kung fu can be differentiated from MMA in that it trains for the no-rules environment of "the street", while MMA is concerned with training for the limited, rules-based venue of the sport.

"The street" contains many uncontrollable variables, such as multiple opponents, weapons, uneven footing, and a variety of potential physical obstacles. The sport version of MMA is much more controlled environment that can be anticipated to a greater degree beforehand.

Most people would agree that to get the most out of your training, you must spar. For those who train for "the street”, how often do you spar with and against weapons? Multiple opponents? Multiple opponents with weapons? What kinds of weapons do you spar with and against? What kinds of mixes do you use with mutliples? 2 on1? 3 on 1? 2 on 3? 3 on 5? What kinds of weapons do you throw into the mix?

For those that do spar, how do you keep the injuries down? How do you make it realistic?

What are the things you have learned from your sparring experiences?
How does the environment affect your ability to fight multiple and/or weapons wielding opponents? Do your specific techniques change when facing multiple opponents and/or weapons? Do your tactics change? Does the mix of how important technique vs. strategy is change? What happens when it is you, rather than your opponent, who has the advantage either in terms of weapons or numbers? How do bladed vs. blunt edged vs. projectile vs. firearms weapons change the tactics and techniques?

[jigahus]

In all likelihood I'd bust out my gat and go rattattattat and brackabracka on his @$$.

Or just run away from a multiple opponent robbery/fight using defensive manuevers to allow me to get away.

[SPJ]

the rules about the street are that there are no rules.

there may be fighting odds/chances against your personal belongings and life.


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the best odd would be stay away or run away from the situations that are not in your favor.

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MMA seems to be mano a mano or one against one and tapping out.

the street would be you against many people and with weapons, too.

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[Mas Judt]

I'd argue that the average 'streetfighter' is really not that good of a fighter, and you actually face much more challenging opponents in free-fighting venues.

In my club we do all sorts of stuff along the lines of multiple attackers, weapons sparring, et al... although when I really break out this stuff, it's a steady stream to the medic, and that is IN a controlled situation. Honestly KF, I don't think most folks really get the distinction you are making here. While combat sports can develop some bad habits, and not cover other important facts bridging from 'sport' to 'combat' - I don't see that happening so much with the current crowd. There are plenty of folks seeking to stay true to 'real' skills while benefitting from combat sports.

Suggestion - everybody go out and buy Geoff Thompsons videos on 'the fence' and 'animal day.' Now, that is some fun and some tasty reality. Too often multiple attacker drills I see consist of the attackers dropping at the slightest touch, when what you really need is **** good footwork and stopping power, neither of which are exhibited in the 'standard' drills I see in most schools.

FWIW.

[Knifefighter]

In my club we do all sorts of stuff along the lines of multiple attackers, weapons sparring, et al...

Since you seem to be one of the few people doing this, tell me about the things you have learned.

although when I really break out this stuff, it's a steady stream to the medic, and that is IN a controlled situation.

How often are you doing this and what kinds of injuries are you seeing?
How do you think they might be prevented?

[Juan Nowon]

I'd argue that the average 'streetfighter' is really not that good of a fighter, and you actually face much more challenging opponents in free-fighting venues.

In my club we do all sorts of stuff along the lines of multiple attackers, weapons sparring, et al... although when I really break out this stuff, it's a steady stream to the medic, and that is IN a controlled situation. Honestly KF, I don't think most folks really get the distinction you are making here. While combat sports can develop some bad habits, and not cover other important facts bridging from 'sport' to 'combat' - I don't see that happening so much with the current crowd. There are plenty of folks seeking to stay true to 'real' skills while benefitting from combat sports.

Suggestion - everybody go out and buy Geoff Thompsons videos on 'the fence' and 'animal day.' Now, that is some fun and some tasty reality. Too often multiple attacker drills I see consist of the attackers dropping at the slightest touch, when what you really need is **** good footwork and stopping power, neither of which are exhibited in the 'standard' drills I see in most schools.

FWIW.

Are these drills ,in the link below, considered to display good footwork and stopping power? Are they training for "the street"? Interesting ideas this crowd has.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfkjKMQP9y8

[Yao Sing]

The last place I trained didn't spend any time on weapons fighting or multiple attackers but previous schools I attended did touch on these.

I've done knife and gun drills with rubber knives and guns, stick (versus empty hand) drills with real sticks. Some good, some questionable. I've been to a handful of schools and every one had some questionable material.

I've done multiple attacker drills where you stand in the center of a circle and teacher calls on guys to attack you, sometimes sequentially from different directions and sometimes simultaneous.

One school we did a free for all where the guy that was 'it' was attacked by the rest of the class until exhaustion (or excessive injury).

I've also done classes where you wear your everyday street clothes (what you would most likely be wearing when attacked) to discover any differences in functionality with different clothing and get comfortable. Women are the big losers there.

A lot of that was done at my first Kenpo school. He was big on variety. I'm surprised he never got someone to jump us in the parking lot for real life practice.

He once gave another student (just out of the military where he boxed, clean cut and built, I was a skinny hippie with long hair and earring) permission to beat the crap out of me in class if he could.

Stupid me didn't know about the deal so when he paired us up to spar I was point sparring light contact while he was trying to take my head off. I was blocking everything he threw but when I realized he was going all out I dropped him with a roundhouse kick to the solar plexus. I found out about the setup after class.

Knifefighter will like the fact that my teacher went on to learn JiuJitsu (probably BJJ) some time after that (about mid 80s) and currently teaches what he calls Kenpo JiuJitsu. That guy was a trip. His name is Cliff Comparato if anyone's heard of him.

[Knifefighter]

The last place I trained didn't spend any time on weapons fighting or multiple attackers but previous schools I attended did touch on these.

So, what are some of the things you learned related to the questions I posed above?

[David Jamieson]

You can't train for the street. you can just train as you are shown an best know how based on teh experience of those who came before and adapting with situations as they arise.

situational awareness training and methods that help ingrain the habits associated with situational awareness are much more valuable "street ready" training than any martial tactical practice.

[Knifefighter]

You can't train for the street. you can just train as you are shown an best know how based on teh experience of those who came before and adapting with situations as they arise.

situational awareness training and methods that help ingrain the habits associated with situational awareness are much more valuable "street ready" training than any martial tactical practice.

But what about all the kung fu guys who say that is what kung fu is for?

[Knifefighter]

Are these drills ,in the link below, considered to display good footwork and stopping power? Are they training for "the street"? Interesting ideas this crowd has.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfkjKMQP9y8

I'm not familiar with Thompson's program, but I can't say that video was too impressive unless they were training to poke the eyes of random people who are walking down the street.

[David Jamieson]

But what about all the kung fu guys who say that is what kung fu is for?

uh, I'm a "kungfu guy".

chinese martial arts, like any martial arts can be used for attack or defense.

but training is just training.

[Knifefighter]

uh, I'm a "kungfu guy".

chinese martial arts, like any martial arts can be used for attack or defense.

but training is just training.

OK, then... let's break it down into multiple/weapons vs. unarmed and one person.

Same topic as above, but we can replace street with "just training" if that makes you happier.

Same questions regarding insights apply.

[David Jamieson]

lemme break it down a little.

a soldier enters the armed forces and gets his 13 weeks of boot camp.
thios is hard training, mostly conditioning, heaps of cardio vascular stuff and strength building through gruelling routines.

once that's been gotten through, they get a station.

at the station, depending on their units level of participation in whatever, they continue some forms of training and where it lacks, there is provisions made for those soldiers that do wish to continue training conditioning stuff and often there ar clubs on base where soldiers can learn any number of various types of self defense and attack methods and tactics.

some soldiers can specialize and do rigorous martial training such as rangers, seals and other special ops type teams.

a guy can go through all of this for years before he steps out of a c130 and gets shot in the head before he gets his gear out of stow.

and that's my point about training.

Train because you want to train. You don't need any other reasons.

[Knifefighter]

a guy can go through all of this for years before he steps out of a c130 and gets shot in the head before he gets his gear out of stow.
and that's my point about training.

lTrain because you want to train. You don't need any other reasons.

I guess, according to your "point", the military doesn't need to train its personnel.. only those guys who want to train.

But that is another thread. This one is to discuss insights learned from training with multiple opponents and/or weapons in a realistic manner.