The myth of the standing arm break...

[SifuAbel]

nice vid man.

KF check the 5:05 point....

Oh well, so much for that arguement.

[unkokusai]

Simple example,

- Your opponent uses single leg shooting and trying to get your right leg.
- You spin your body to your right and use your left knee to strike at his right elbow when his right hand has touched your right leg and his right arm is fully extended.

Please don't argue that this move won't work against a skillful shooter .

I won't. I'll argue that that is veeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyy unlikely to work against anyone.

[Ben Gash]

Dislocating an elbow takes much more force than breaking a radius, and has a MUCH more catastrophic and immediate effect.
As for impossible? Breaking/dislocating the arm is relatively easy, it's getting into a postion that is difficult. This requires a fairly high level of sensitivity training, and again, if your opponent has an equally high level it will be very difficult, but if your opponent has a skill level very close to yours ANYTHING will be difficult.
As I always say, if he's better than you then he's going to beat you.

[Fu-Pow]

I think dislocation would be easier to pull off than a "break". Usually, the arm is restrained at the wrist and pressure is applied to the back of the elbow causing a dislocation.

There is an easy way to do a dislocation as well. If someone tries to restrain one of your arms with a cross hand grab, you grab their hand and "roll" your elbow over there arm behind the elbow and now all you have to do is twist and you have a dislocation.

Its true that a skilled fighter is not going to try to restrain you with cross hand grab. Using the extremities is a poor way to control people if you don't have some kind of leverage at the joint. Striking and throwing seems to be easier to pull off.

[rogue]

Kind of a spinoff from another thread... How many people have learned techniques that are supposed to break someone's arm, either while standing or on the way to the ground.

The fact is, you will almost never be able to purposely break someone's arm in this manner if they are even somewhat skilled and/or strong and providing resistance. While these types of breaks do occasionally occur, they are almost always accidental.

Any breaks that one can perform "on purpose" will be those that one can do while controlling the opponent on the ground, rather than when standing or throwing.

Thanks for telling me. It's a little late as I dislocated a guys arm in a fight about 25 years back. And it was easy.

[SifuAbel]

........... but if your opponent has a skill level very close to yours then ANYTHING will be difficult.
As I always say, if he's better than you then he's going to beat you.

You'd think this would be obvious.

[Becca]

I won't. I'll argue that that is veeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyy unlikely to work against anyone.

This works just fine for me. Don't know what it has to do with breaking bones... but the technique is sound if a bit tricky on the timing if you're one of those people who don't see the point practicing it thoroughly once you think you’ve “got it.”

[Ben Gash]

You'd think this would be obvious.

Apparently not if you're a hardcore JKD/MMA guy
Anyway, this is the response I use when students come up with endless, increasingly improbable "what if"s

[David Jamieson]

Kind of a spinoff from another thread... How many people have learned techniques that are supposed to break someone's arm, either while standing or on the way to the ground.

The fact is, you will almost never be able to purposely break someone's arm in this manner if they are even somewhat skilled and/or strong and providing resistance. While these types of breaks do occasionally occur, they are almost always accidental.

Any breaks that one can perform "on purpose" will be those that one can do while controlling the opponent on the ground, rather than when standing or throwing.

Bullshit KF, I've busted a guys arm from a standing position. I've also dislocated a guys shoulder from a standing position.

Yep, you can do it lying down as well I suppose. I've choked out a couple of guys on the ground.

Being up or down is irrelevant.

[YouKnowWho]

I'll argue that that is veeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyy unlikely to work against anyone.

I wish I can say that any moves that

- Work without training are valid moves.
- Require training are moves "unlikely" to work.

This way CMA needs no training and only need common sense.

[unkokusai]

I wish I can say that any moves that

- Work without training are valid moves.
- Require training are moves "unlikely" to work.

This way CMA needs no training and only need common sense.

???????????????????????????????

Once more in English?

[MonkeyKingUSA]

Kind of a spinoff from another thread... How many people have learned techniques that are supposed to break someone's arm, either while standing or on the way to the ground.

The fact is, you will almost never be able to purposely break someone's arm in this manner if they are even somewhat skilled and/or strong and providing resistance. While these types of breaks do occasionally occur, they are almost always accidental.

Any breaks that one can perform "on purpose" will be those that one can do while controlling the opponent on the ground, rather than when standing or throwing.

Where does this guy get his generalizations?

Whose facts? What data can you provide? Do you have enough proficiency in Jujutsu, Aikido, Chin Na or Shuai Jiao to know this? Why should we consider you an "expert" on any area of the martial arts, MMA or otherwise?
Richard A. Tolson

[YouKnowWho]

Once more in English?

- Understanding the opportunate,
- Catching the right timing,
- Move your body in the right angle,
- Apply the correct amount of force,
- Remain proper balance,

Just don't come without hard training.

To thorw a basket ball into a basket from 40 yards away may sound impossible for none basket ball players but for professional basket ball players, their "successful rate" may be higher than 80%.

Where does this guy get his generalizations?

Because KF believes that "If it's not MMA then it won't work".

[hung-le]

Kind of a spinoff from another thread... How many people have learned techniques that are supposed to break someone's arm, either while standing or on the way to the ground.

The fact is, you will almost never be able to purposely break someone's arm in this manner if they are even somewhat skilled and/or strong and providing resistance. While these types of breaks do occasionally occur, they are almost always accidental.

Any breaks that one can perform "on purpose" will be those that one can do while controlling the opponent on the ground, rather than when standing or throwing.

Knife: I’m assuming you are talking about “traps and grabs” fictional chin na...as I call them……which lead into stand up arm breaks which are prominent inside some CMA forms.

Yea, I would say on the surface that u would be correct, but then that would assume that the creator of the art (s) didn’t understand this very fundamental effectual truth. In Quanshu (a term I like use for reality based Chinese arts...) appearance and intent plus application are usually not what they appear to be

I’ll cite an example from my old art.

In a series of moves, "on the surface" it appears that with a circular movement using an out stretched left hand, I block in incoming strike to my right side, then come up underneath my left arm with my right hand I grab the attacking punch then I kick.

What’s the odds of that happening?…..slim and next to none. Who can snatch a punch out of mid air? Or break/dislocate the arm of a skilled opponnet standing up?

What that series of movements actually are: is an inside to outside scope underneath the opponent’s armpit with the left arm, (quite doable from any number of scenarios…) then using a piercing palm to strike to the opponents throat with my right, concluded by grabbing the trachea area and pulling back toward me while kicking the opponent center mass/groin area … away from me (i.e. trying to get a shearing effect) There is a head butt in there too...lol

would this work...who can say...point being..... its not what it looks like

To people who don’t know what they are looking at say “yea right…! BS! ” thinking the form exemplifies grabbing a punch out of mid air, then kicking the guy while holding his arm..... Chuck Norris style...!!

In most Quanshu: from what I've seen .....the real intentions are what usually follows those type of techniques (i.e. those that are supposed to grab, trap or break someone's arm, either while standing or on the way to the ground.

if its real Quanshu it should be something really nasty.

[Flying-Monkey]

i wonder when Richard Dawkins is going to write The Kung Fu Delusion book.