Let's Be Real

[lunghushan]

You guys really like to argue. This topic has been rolled and rerolled a zillion times (can I say Zillion?).

There's two dynamics at work here, I think -- one is that a lot of CMA people probably want a venue to fight and use their techniques and think they're not getting enough partner practice, but the training and venues for such fighting don't really seem to exist. The MMA venues aren't really applicable to CMA technique, are they? And sanda/sanshou is watered down.

Some people on here have agendas -- if they're pro teachers why would they waste their time posting on here? Obviously it has to do with promoting themselves and their products. Everytime lkmfdc posts he's advertising his site and his DVDs. So he wants to promote his way which is sanda/sanshou/MMA with a CMA background.

A lot of people posting on here teach private classes, and obviously they want to get more students.

So that's probably why it keeps coming up.

[SevenStar]

Take a great MMA fighter like Chuck Ludell, if was to come to my school and fight me, I would have use monkey and gauge his eyes and pokes to his throat. I would also run around alot since there is no Octogon to pin me up against. If he would catch me or put me in a choke I might be thru.

you had an excellent post, until you posted that... are you serious? the rest of the post was great, though.

[Shaolin Wookie]

This whole thread can be answered easily.

There are two kinds of MA's (principally, sometimes there's people who are both):

1. Traditionalists

2. Tournament fighters.

Traditionalists tend to last longer, or have the stronger desire to teach, and they inherit the tradition. Hence, they are Traditional Masters.

Tournament fighters might last as long, but their tournament skills distance them from the traditions--no, it's not a cop out--and they tend to begin to think in functionality. They scrap what they don't need, and become MMA'ers. Hence, they break with tradition.

Neither one's better. One path is just suited better to the person walking it.

The reason why Traditional Masters don't enter the UFC?

Because they'd probably cease to be Traditional Masters. Traditional MA's are in the UFC, right now. Only, they've adapted to their particular needs, and scrapped some traditions along the way. It's why many TCMA'ers rag on UFC, and MMA'ers rag on TCMA'ers.

Simple as that.

[Raised by Swans]

I agree. It's very hard to maintain credibility in both TMA and MMA.

I moved around alot when I got into KF. The second school I went to was a traditional Hung Gar school. However, the instructor also trained MMA fighters on the side. As I continued there, his fighters kept winning and began gaining notority in the local Rage in the Cage movement and more MMA fighters joined up at his school.

Eventually, the school turned a 180 and I was one of a select few still learning KF, and even then, the Sifu taught it only under the stipulation that I also fought in MMA boughts. It all boiled down to money. In the end, it came down to how the Sifu of this particular school could keep his doors open.

In regards to TMA fighters not succeeding in the MMA arena, I think the whole conversation is rather mute. I've seen amazing TMAers convert their fighting style to work in the MMA arena and vice versa. There's no such thing as one art being better than the other, only one person being better than the other.

[7starstudent]

The reason why Traditional Masters don't enter the UFC?

Because they'd probably cease to be Traditional Masters. Traditional MA's are in the UFC, right now. Only, they've adapted to their particular needs, and scrapped some traditions along the way. It's why many TCMA'ers rag on UFC, and MMA'ers rag on TCMA'ers.

Simple as that.

First of all, I can't believe I read all 9 pages of this post. Secondly, Shaolin Wookie's remarks above are possibly some of the most insightful I've ever read after years of lurking on this forum.

Well said.

[SifuAbel]

Take a great MMA fighter like Chuck Ludell, if was to come to my school and fight me, I would have use monkey and gauge his eyes and pokes to his throat. I would also run around alot since there is no Octogon to pin me up against. If he would catch me or put me in a choke I might be thru. The only true thing you can say is the guy who trains the most in his given style will most likely be thr winner.

You're not helping.

You should have stopped before this.

If I were to start a line with "I would use monkey", it would be followed with " my striking is complemented by my familiarity of movement close to the ground, low center of gravity, speed, elusivness, range of attacks, unorthodox footwork, etc. It would not include the eye gouge.

[Knifefighter]

Take a great MMA fighter like Chuck Ludell, if was to come to my school and fight me, I would have use monkey and gauge his eyes and pokes to his throat. I would also run around alot since there is no Octogon to pin me up against. If he would catch me or put me in a choke I might be thru.

Since when does one need any training to poke someone in the eye and run away?

[ginosifu]

Take a great MMA fighter like Chuck Ludell, if was to come to my school and fight me, I would have use monkey and gauge his eyes and pokes to his throat. I would also run around alot since there is no Octogon to pin me up against. If he would catch me or put me in a choke I might be thru. The only true thing you can say is the guy who trains the most in his given style will most likely be thr winner.

I am sorry if you guys mis interpreted my statement. It was a hypthetical situation that could have happened at any school. I tried to make an example of different approaches to martial arts and who would be at an advantage and who would not.

You guys are definatley wound to tight. This one of the biggest problems with many of you. You tend to harp all over anyone that does not fall into one of your precast categories.

Instead of harping on each other.... you should help one another. Promote the good clean martial arts that everyone wants.

Ginosifu

[ginosifu]

I am sorry If my Monkey does conform to yours, but yes I would rake your eyes & poke the soft tissue or hole of your throat (Lien Chuan). The monkey style that use relys elusive footwork yes, but our tactics include moves to distract / blind an opponent.
Monkeys are mean, backstabbing, mischivious and annoying little animals that can not go toe to toe with a tiger. They prefer to sneak up from behind grab his balls and run.

Ginosifu

[rogue]

I am sorry if you guys mis interpreted my statement. It was a hypthetical situation that could have happened at any school.

Darn that Chuck Liddell dropping into TMA schools and attacking people.

Did any of you get the latest DVD of Fearless? The bonus section has a conversation with Jet Li and his words speak it all.

"There is no difinative one best style, only different levels of skill."

While I think Jet Li is a very gifted lesbian, I don't think he's the final authority on what's best. You do have to ask, different levels in what skills? I know people who are fearsome in forms work but don't know diddly about fighting even at the most basic level.

[MonkeyKingUSA]

I am sorry If my Monkey does conform to yours, but yes I would rake your eyes & poke the soft tissue or hole of your throat (Lien Chuan). The monkey style that use relys elusive footwork yes, but our tactics include moves to distract / blind an opponent.
Monkeys are mean, backstabbing, mischivious and annoying little animals that can not go toe to toe with a tiger. They prefer to sneak up from behind grab his balls and run.

Ginosifu

You forgot to throw poo on him afterwards! I thought I taught you better than that. NEVER FORGET THE POO!

I have a feeling the name of the next thread by the MMA crowd will be THE MYTH OF THE EYE RAKE AND BALL GRAB. LOL!

[Mr Punch]

I would have use monkey and gauge his eyes ...

You're going to test his eyes with a monkey? Is it a very small monkey? Oh, I get it, while he's looking at the eye chart with the monkeys, then you sneak up behind him and grab his nuts. Flawless!

[Ravenshaw]

The reason why Traditional Masters don't enter the UFC?

Because they'd probably cease to be Traditional Masters. Traditional MA's are in the UFC, right now. Only, they've adapted to their particular needs, and scrapped some traditions along the way. It's why many TCMA'ers rag on UFC, and MMA'ers rag on TCMA'ers.

Simple as that.

Do you mean that you can't be "traditional" and fight full-contact?

[mattb]

Since when does one need any training to poke someone in the eye and run away?

And who said the Three Stooges weren't educational?

[SifuAbel]

I am sorry If my Monkey does conform to yours, but yes I would rake your eyes & poke the soft tissue or hole of your throat (Lien Chuan). The monkey style that use relys elusive footwork yes, but our tactics include moves to distract / blind an opponent.
Monkeys are mean, backstabbing, mischivious and annoying little animals that can not go toe to toe with a tiger. They prefer to sneak up from behind grab his balls and run.

Ginosifu

If we were fighting tigers I'd agree with you. But were're not. We are fighting other monkies. Humans; to be exact.

Make no mistake, as far as monkies go, I AM the biggest son of a bitch on the planet. I will do ANYTHING and everything I can if need be. But I don't depend on being the small monkey. And thats the point. If all you got is the soft, then you may not get through the hard.

The eye gouge/throat strike is a panacea if used as a sole strategy. While I'm not above using such a technique, its not the basis of my entire style. Your style should be much bigger than that.