Let's Be Real

[Ben Gash]

Why don't more TCMA guys enter more MMA events? Certainly in this country limited opportunity, especially the lack of any kind of decent amateur circuit. This makes it very difficult to break into. If your first competitive match is going to be at a semi-pro event it's somewhat off-putting (if you can even get on the card).
Of the amateur events that are around in this country, too many of them are geared towards Gi styles and make you wear one (so this costs you extra, and you have to fight in an uncomfortable, unfamiliar outfit), have stupid rules about striking (I won't fight in a stand up event that doesn't allow face punching, I'm certainly not going to do an MMA fight thus hamstrung), or are about pushing an association agenda (I once tried to enter a supposedly "open" event, only to find that their "open" event required you to have association mambership, at $120!!!)
If I could find a safe, well run open amateur event I would have no hesitation in taking my students there, but they seem to be few and far between.
As for why TMAists don't do better? A) think about it, why doesn't someone who trains in a TMA not beat someone in a sporting format when their opponent trains solely for that sporting format? B) really the track record isn't as bad as it would appear. The vast majority of TMAists (indeed stand up fighters) in the early UFCs were either has beens or nobodies, fighting guys at the top of their games such as Gracie, Shamrock, Taktarov etc.
As for why doesn't some master jump in and fight for the honour of TMA? Largely because the term master implies that you're somewhat over 20, and have a little perspective on things

[unkokusai]

As for why doesn't some master jump in and fight for the honour of TMA? Largely because the term master implies that you're somewhat over 20, and have a little perspective on things

'Perspective' = afraid to get beat to hell by a younger figher and blow your image and the income you make off it.

[Ben Gash]

Perspective = realising that in the grand scheme of things it's simply not important enough to take the time out to do the extra training required for 6 months to make a pretty meaningless point that all the MMA people will ignore or dismiss anyway

[unkokusai]

Perspective = realising that in the grand scheme of things it's simply not important enough to take the time out to do the extra training required for 6 months to make a pretty meaningless point that all the MMA people will ignore or dismiss anyway

MMA people would niether ignore or dismiss success. They have every motivation to do just the opposite.

And if say, a Hung-gar man were to acquit himself well in competition (not beat EVERYONE, just do well consistently at a high level) the publicity and surge in enrollment would make him rich and respected and improve the lot of all Hung-gar teachers and students.

[Ray Pina]

Keeping things in perspective:

I train at Renzo Gracies, a premier BJJ academy in the US.... of the hundreds (probably thousands) of people that train there ... of all belt levels.... only a very small handful, less than 3 percent, have any interest in fighting.



There are many underground venues that will allow you to fight under rules that you like. There is an article about a recent event I was invited to in today's (or yesterday's) NY Times Metro Section. There are also Throwdowns and any number of contacts you can create yourself using the internet


Most MMA events, even those with heavy rules, are FAR more advanced and cover more stages of fighting that karate, TKD and Kung Fu tournaments. For those that have an interest there is no excuse. For those that don't, there's no excuse needed. It's very simply: fighting is dangerous and can hurt... at best.

This is why I take martial arts practice seriously. It's like that old modeling commercial... be a model or just look like one. You might not want to go fight, but you should train as if you are. That's martial arts.

[Knifefighter]

Generally, TMA “masters” have too much to lose to fight publicly. Occasionally you will see a match like the San Soo vs. MMA or the aikido vs. Karate/BJJ purple belt that was making the rounds a few weeks ago.

Usually the TMA guy loses badly and then loses all his business. It’s much better, in terms of keeping the $$$$ rolling in, just to keep up the mystique of being a master.

[Ben Gash]

^I do not live in the US. Of those that do live in the US most don't live in the major cities where this is easy.

[Knifefighter]

I doubt that your teacher felt like he was wasting your time with what you call "fluff".

I’m sure the aikido chi master didn’t think he was wasting anyone’s time either.

[unkokusai]

^I do not live in the US. Of those that do live in the US most don't live in the major cities where this is easy.

What are you talking about?

[Knifefighter]

^I do not live in the US. Of those that do live in the US most don't live in the major cities where this is easy.

In these days of YouTube, it would be a simple matter to stage an underground event yourself and then post the fights.

[Knifefighter]

So... you're making the argument that because none enter, any TMAist would lose?

That, plus the fact, the recent history has shown that they usually do lose.

[Knifefighter]

good post. plus, when kung fu enters the ring, it all becomes the same as what those guys study. kicking, punching, applying stuff on the ground..

Because that’s what works in fighting.

That’s exactly the reason that so many CMA guys lose… because they think that fighting is somehow different than kicking, punching and applying stuff on the ground.

[Knifefighter]

To be perfectly REAL, I've gone and checked out the training of the UFC/MMA fighters. We have at least one guy here locally (Ivan Salaverry) who used to train (maybe still does) in Kirkland, at AMC Pankration.
What they do is kickboxing, boxing and grappling.

Exactly…

Once again, that’s what real fighting is.

[Knifefighter]

So do you believe that the UFC and similar venues are the be-all end-all to fighting? Do you believe that if you don't see it in the UFC, it has to suck? If that's what you believe, how do you account for TMA guys that fought for their life on the streets and what about tournaments, that were far more brutal then the UFC, that TMA guys fought in? What do you make of that?

Lots of people are attacked and have to fight for their lives on the street. Many street attacks are far more brutal than the UFC.

Doesn’t’ mean just because they are fighting for their lives in a brutal environment that they have any skills, though.

[lunghushan]

Exactly…

Once again, that’s what real fighting is.

That's what they think too. BTW, KF, I asked and I have permission to show you a couple of standing arm breaks if I get down to Southern California (not fighting, just a friendly meeting), so you can judge for yourself. Don't know when I'll get down there, though.