Kung Fu Femmes

[chinadoll]

Thanks Shaolinlueb. You rock dude. Although I feel like I can most definitely take care of myself, it is nice to have a gentleman defend us ladies. Ha Ha Ha. BTW, everyone I just finished watching Jet Li's Fearless AGAIN! I fricken' love that movie, it makes me weep every time AND gets me pumped about practicing. What about all of you?

[firepalm]

Chinadoll,
Not whining merely stating my opinion, you know if you put something out there for public display then don't be surprised if you get some criitiques. If you label it Kung Fu Femmes, doing what you do and then put it up on a board such as this expect that your critics might be even more harsh.

Not trying to get in a ****ing contest with you Chinadoll but I am just calling a spade a spade. I've done CMA for the better part of my life here in Canada and Asia, I know the difference between skill & bad martial arts. Scantily clad was not meant as a criticism merely a statement, whatever you wish to wear in your performance is between your producers & the talent, for me it was merely a discription (neither intended negatively & positive). I will however apologize for being offensive with my remarks about moderately attractive, it was off the cuff and shouldn't have been made. But hey with your very astitute personality profiling of myself if the show doesn't work out you might have a career opportunity as a CSI.

You're right, Shaolin Lueb they're performers & poor ones at that. Sorry if I am not all PC enough for you. I just hate seeing bad martial arts passed off as Kung Fu. I've said my piece thank you.

[tonylaudati]

For all I know, you may be an exceptional martial artist.

But one thing is certain, you are no gentleman. You are a rude, ignorant S.O.B.

It's a shame that none of other the virtues of martial arts - respect, courtesy, civility - have rubbed off on you.

All you know how to do is break bones.

[firepalm]

No gentleman, well maybe, but at least not a p i m p! (you know if you kept my mom out of this I might not have said that)....

Only break bones? Oh contraire! I am actually quite the lover of the performance versions of Kung Fu / Wushu among many other things. What did Shaolinlueb say you guys are performers. Well here are some good examples of fine performance Chinese Martial Arts;
http://www.terracottawarriors.org/
http://www.chunyi-kungfu.com/
http://tow.smugmug.com/gallery/1083558
http://www.wheeloflife.co.uk/

As well here's a young girl (10 @ the time http://www.wccma.com/kathytrinhwmv.htm ) from up here in Vancouver, purely a Wushu performer but at least displays versatility, range of skill & genuine skill. Those unispired poorly choreographed performances, by your Kung Fu Femmes performers couldn't begin to hold a candle to even this little girl.

Personally if you didn't call it 'Kung Fu' Femmes, I wouldn't give a toss. Call it Karate femmes and I wouldn't bat an eyelash, but you opened the door when you put a bunch '***** Cat Doll' Wannabes pretending to Kung Fu, especially by posting on a Kung Fu message board.

You know for a person in showbiz, you really develop a little thicker skin. Now for the record I did apologize for one comment to Chinadoll (the attractiveness of the performers) as it was understandibly out of line. I also clarified on a comment regarding their clothing, which was not an insult. However as to my comment on bad martial arts, I standby that and once again you opened the door by putting the stuff up on a Kung Fu Message board. You don't like the critiques or commentaries then wise up and think before you put that some place where actual Kung Fu persons are going to look at it.

[GeneChing]

Didn't know you had it in ya, Shaolinlueb, but I'm sure you identify with being scantily clad and moderately attractive.

tonylaudati, chinadoll: firepalm is right about one thing - you do need to have a thick skin to be on a martial forum. Gentlemanly behavior got choked out by Royce here years ago.

[Golden Arms]

I agree with Firepalm, the perfomance itself is not that good. But what did you expect, I dont think you would get much praise for posting a Ford to a Ferrarri forum either for the most part, but that doesnt mean the ford isnt good for what its going to be doing. It just means that your target audience and the forum were not the same groups. To most people that practice martial arts, and especially the ones that fight or pressure test them, even the best hollywood can offer in movies as far as martial arts tend to suck. So dont take it too hard, just keep at it, there will always be a market for pretty much everything out there.

[chinadoll]

Firepalm, I hope your studies in CMA continue and do well for you. If you have a good teacher, and I’m sure you do, I also hope you will learn more about how to express yourself and communicate your inner feelings in ways other than in negativity. I know you do not see your comments as being negative, however, sarcasm and low blows are indeed, negative. Although you did apologize for one low blow, you quickly negated any and all apologies, with additional insults and low blows. But I will not take offense, so no need for any more apologies.

Being in showbiz, we are actually quite used to harsh critiques from all over the spectrum in Vegas, Hollywood and various Clubs and TV stations in Los Angeles. Be that as it is, we do get good information and helpful suggestions as well.

For all of you true martial artists, thank you for your real critiques and suggestions. I have actually copied and pasted many of your critiques on this very forum in emails to the rest of the troupe members . We continue to welcome any and all critiques and suggestions from you harsh or not, that’s why we’re on here. But I do ask, that we be polite. I know there are people on here that don’t know the meaning of the word polite. But for a martial arts forum, there should be a sense of martial spirit. Warriors on one hand, but equally, philosophers. I hope most, if not all of you agree with that motto.

Golden Arm – you’re right about most of the people on this forum most likely being the type to bash Hollywood martial arts films. In all honesty, I wholeheartedly agree with them. A lot of the stuff they show is hard to watch if you are an “application” type martial artist. However, it’s arguable that if you put these “application” type martial artists up on the silver screen or on the stage, what you would see would be completely boring. That is unless your name is Bruce Lee, or you’re watching UFC. Ha Ha.

[Golden Arms]

Agreed..that is why they dont put real stuff up there, its boring, or doesnt look like much on film...fighting is either ugly, or too small to see whats going on half the time. My point was more just dont worry too much about what these kinds of people think of your product, since they are not really the target audience. I am sure the average person probably enjoys your shows quite a bit.

[firepalm]

Chinadoll said

But I will not take offense, so no need for any more apologies.

Good thing cause I wouldn't want you to hold your breath cause I got no other apologies coming cause there's nothing else I need to apologize for. Quite frankly the other two original comments were both accurate and on the mark, in spite of what your producer said on another thread the martial arts of Kung Fu Femmes is really not 'Amazing'! As to my sarcasm, when someone calls me an SOB (again I take that as insult my mom as well) or does a unfavorable profile on me with no more knowledge of me then two posts on a forum well.... all I can say is whatever!

Chinadoll said

But for a martial arts forum, there should be a sense of martial spirit. Warriors on one hand, but equally, philosophers. I hope most, if not all of you agree with that motto.

Oh dear god what is with the 'Master Po' stuff? I guess you probably don't get out with many old school Cantonese Kung Fu Sifu, the ones I know wouldn't be nearly as polite as me. Comments like, 'Yauh Mou Gau Cho Ah?' & 'Wah, Ma Lunh Yeh!' immediately come to mind (ask a Chinese speaking person the meanings if you like). My guess is that some on this forum would back me on that point, probably even Gene Ching, but he might be too polite to do so. Tell you what if you ever get up Vancouver way to do a show, I'll bring a bunch of old school Sifu, and you can canvass their comments afterwards!

I have over thirty years in CMA, in Hong Kong, China & Canada, over a dozen different instructors. I have travelled extensively throughout China and keep myself open to all aspects of the CMA. I am also a great lover of Chinese Acrobatics & Beijing Opera, and have attended literally hundreds of shows in my life time. So with all of that being said I think I qualify to offer you some comments;

1) Get Out & See More - If you're going to call it 'Kung Fu' Femmes get out & see more of what you advertise yourselves as doing. It is clearly evident in your choreography that your group isn't drawing from much, as in extremely limited knowledge. I also had a look at a few of the other youtube videos it is clear that no one really has much if any real experience in CMA. Yet you call it 'Kung Fu'! It seriously amazes me how many westerners learn a little CMA and think they really have a handle on the whole of it.

2) Choreography - Double Sticks & Staff, sorry but it is bad & uninspired. Your girls do pretty much what every person with absolutely no training does; a bunch bad figure eights. Here are some examples of what staff work should look like (I love the internet so much resources )
Traditional Kung Fu flavor;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVWtUCOWVZI
Modern Wushu flavor;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3W_7ri4T1Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81xtuldUzcw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDG033L8E5o
Shaolin flavor;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNfd3fPF6e8
A little Weapon Choreography from Beijing Opera
(note go about half way into the clip)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpcypJ4JNI4

3) Fight Choreography - I realize that what you are doing is staged and not the same as film but honestly your fight choreography is pretty poor.
More youtube stuff (yes film but at least the choreography is fresh & ya'll really should see more);
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMr9FkjLrxU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtpmFzUzp4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYP2vwcK6h0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLgOchuQwZ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud53wEYts7k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqxvj-mW5HE

4) Dance element - nothing wrong with dance and martial arts in the same show. While I don't profess to be an expert I regularly attend a yearly Chinese dance & Ballet show that a friends children are in. Some of these shows have incorporated CMA but it blended. What your choreographer does by virtue of the videos I have seen just looks like the occasional giration while holding a pair of sticks. There is no cohesion!

Probably the easiest thing to do would be to FIRE your choreographer, that and your girls should get some proper training for a few years cause they ain't all that.

Don't like what I have had to say, have a look at what the Wushu kids are saying over on Jiayo.com
http://www.jiayo.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4297
Just in case you don't have the time to get over here's some quotes from Jiayo.com
1 'That's hilarious. Wait, was it supposed to be funny?'
2 'Jesus Christ, my eyes.'
3 'Personally, I think they need a LOT more training! Sure, they are pretty women, but their Kung Fu SUCKS!!!!!!! '
4 Kung Fu Femmes - "Scantily clothed, scantily portraying martial arts."
5 'The fact that they actualy take themselves seriously makes the whole thing even funnier.'
6 'I saw one of their shows live at Dragonfest a couple years ago. What's even funnier, is that they have egos thinking they are all that!!!'
7 'bleh...i wasnt impressed at all.'
8 'Things that come up like this only dilute the waters even more. As it stands, the water is pretty dirty. Things like these Kung Fu Femmes don't help martial arts, IMO.'
9 'I mean the choreography is really bad and the whole thing is stale. To me its really is a show for people who really train in martial arts to get a great laugh. Its comical to me and absurd art at best.'
10 'They just havent realized how silly they look to the professional martial arts world.' (one of my personal favorites)
11 'They will only pick you if you look hot AND suck at martial arts! LOL!'
12 'They do Kung Foolish.'
13 Here's one from your friend Shaolin Lueb 'yeah their teacher might be mediocre at best, but thats the usa business system for ya.
i mean i love women, and i love women who do kung fu, but i couldnt get into kung fu femme's at all.'

What you do quite honestly strikes a nerve with me, I do Chinese Martial Arts and what you do by virtue of calling it 'Kung Fu' Femmes is a serious misrepresentation. The way I see it some middle America Joe will go to see one of your show and walk away saying something like, 'Yah so I saw a bunch of these women dressed up like the P u s s y Cat Dolls dancing around & twirling some sticks, think they said it was Kung Fu.' All your stuff really is just essentially playing to something of a fetish market; guys that like to watch chicks not wearing a whole lot doing the whole kick your ass thang! Sorry but I don't see any reason to throw praise on you for that!

So I have a simple point blank question for you which requires only a Yes or No answer, when you do live shows do you put a disclaimer like when you pointed out in this thread that it's a Kung Fu theme? My guess NO. So you know what after all I think owe me an apology!

[GeneChing]

I, for one, would love to see the *****cat Dolls take up kung fu. If they ever did, I'd put them on the cover so fast, it'd make your head spin.

[chinadoll]

Ha Ha! I'm not much into burlesque, however the ***** cat dolls do sport some eye catching entertainment. My mother in law wouldn't agree though. The post above yours is way too long and not worth reading, most of all because it is full of contempt. Man, what are people so angry about these days? All I have to say is... nothing.

I enjoy my life and I enjoy doing martial arts. I enjoy learning as much as I can from the positive resources that are available to me. Would anyone like to discuss martial arts with me now?

How about this question: Is it better to learn many different martial arts? Or is it better to stick with one, until you've mastered it. What do you guys think?

[Shaolinlueb]

You're right, Shaolin Lueb they're performers & poor ones at that. Sorry if I am not all PC enough for you. I just hate seeing bad martial arts passed off as Kung Fu. I've said my piece thank you.

hey so what if they are man, I have seen plenty of bad martial artists make a huge living in this industry. like guys put tapes in and let the kids follow it and they have huge schools. but it happens man. its the world. plus at least they like it, and are not in it just for the money. if they were in it just for the money, my attitude would be different about them.

Didn't know you had it in ya, Shaolinlueb, but I'm sure you identify with being scantily clad and moderately attractive.

tonylaudati, chinadoll: firepalm is right about one thing - you do need to have a thick skin to be on a martial forum. Gentlemanly behavior got choked out by Royce here years ago.

do you want me to bust out the sports bra pic again to show how scantily clad i can be?

I, for one, would love to see the *****cat Dolls take up kung fu. If they ever did, I'd put them on the cover so fast, it'd make your head spin.

if they do, pelase let me fly out to San Fran so i can be the guy they beat up in the pictures

China doll

nice post you put together, lots of info. yes I did say that. but no where did i say you fing suck or its a bunch of trash. like some other people. i couldnt get into it, but i gave you a 2nd chance.

[GeneChing]

I'm a great supporter of martial arts in live theater. I think that's one of our greatest frontiers. Does that mean every actor need be a master martial artist to be significant? Man, I just saw David Carridine doing a Yellow pages ad - 'nuff said. It's entertainment. I'm happy when top notch martial artists get into the spotlight. I'm also happy when martial arts gets showcased by non-martial artists like Matrix or Karate Kid. And I would be very entertained to see Shaolinlueb get his arse beaten down by the Kung Fu Femmes. He probably would too.

BTW, I just got this in my email - is an off-broadway NY play that has a lit of martial arts apparently that looks interesting. Check out Jaded Assassin

[chinadoll]

Thanks for the info Gene! That show looks way cool! I must say, I might have to "borrow" some of the ideas. It was cool and funny! I'll be sure and forward the link to the other femmes.

[firepalm]

Gene said

I, for one, would love to see the *****cat Dolls take up kung fu. If they ever did, I'd put them on the cover so fast, it'd make your head spin.

Gene, you guys only publish every other month. Dave @ IKF would beat you to it so fast your head would spin! Bahahahaha

Shaolin Lueb said

I have seen plenty of bad martial artists make a huge living in this industry. like guys put tapes in and let the kids follow it and they have huge schools.

And you know what if they put it up here for the members of this forum to comment on I might just call it how I see it. And if I did I would have the strength of character to stand by my convictions!