Kung Fu Femmes

[firepalm]

Hahaha not bad Chinadoll, it's just a good thing I am a fast typer!

One thing Chinadoll I notice everytime something doesn't sit with you well you don't address it, you evade it & then you start telling people how YOU think they should conduct themselves and start imposing your value system on others. Why don't you step back for a moment and think for just a moment why some here really don't care for your stuff.

In some of my sparetime I do volunteer work for the SPCA!

Check please!

[shaolinsky]

I find it interesting how many people consider themselves martial artists when they don't understand the meaning. I mean the word Kung Fu doesn't mean "Chinese Martial Arts" now does it? So why the offence? One student claims he loves Chinese martial arts and has trained with several old school teachers in Asia...yet all the traditional teachers I have trained with, especially the Chinese ones, teach Discipline before anything else. My uncle taught Shaolin to the military in Taiwan back in the day - he was my first teacher. He was probably one of the most strict teachers I learned from. The discipline I learned seems to differ greatly than some of those on this forum. I was always taught respect first. That is what I teach to my students. I know it's old fashioned - but it seems to be more true to martial arts.

I don't know, but it just seems so disrespectful to call someone out and demean them before knowing them first. Many stories about judging books by their cover come to mind...don't they??

Xia has many interesting comments about protecting the arts, and not letting anyone let us look bad. I agree with that. But does a performance troupe with a martial arts flare really make us look bad? They may be beginners for themost part at the present time - or at least at the time the videos were shot - but doesn't everyone start somewhere? Didn't you start somewhere? I am sure Michelle Yeoh and Zhang Zi Yi had their share of "beginner" performances - and they may have had harsh critics as well. These girls in the Kung Fu Femmes just happen to have the luck and circumstance to be able to show their stuff to a bigger audience than most. Can it get better? YES. But room for improvement doesn't mean it makes anyone look bad. And really - what is so wrong about "women who kick @ss?" You seem to have a big pet peeve with that when I think most people don't mind it at all. Or is it just that they are women? Is that the problem?

In my opinion, martial arts needs to be promoted more - because as much as there is out there - the majority still see it as something foreign. I am all for anything that promotes Martial Arts. And women can promote it as well as men any day - better in my opinion. I see alot of promise in this troupe's future.

Chinadoll, keep at it forever. I know you won't let silly negative feedback get you down - but I just want to reinforce you and your teammates. I've seen you for real - and I know what you got. It is great, and I think you deserve all the praise for your hard work that you can get. I look forward to your next show. And - put together some of your good stuff for us guys to see k? I would love to see one of you in the troupe make it big.

Xia and Palm will be the first ones in line when that happens lol.

[firepalm]

Generic terms all commonly used to refer to Chinese Martial Arts; Kung Fu / Gung Fu / Gong Fu (Skill from Effort, or to be Skilled), Wushu (Martial Arts), Koushu (National Arts). All of these are more current and used in different parts of Asia. Older terms Quan Shu (Fist Arts), Quan Fa (Fist Technique) etc... Point they are all generic terms used to refer to the Chinese Martial Arts as a whole. Do you know the meaning Shaolinsky?

Discipline? How about standing up & speaking out when you don't think something is right?

Odd how you have only four posts (three out of four here) and just came on at this time as a new forum member? Something smells fishy!

As to promoting Chinese Martial Arts, I have never seen it as a gender issue. Just so long as it is done with some dignity and taste.

As to lining up for one of their shows, seen enough on youtube to know it really is not to my tastes.

[Li Kao]

For those that are defending this show, what do you like about it? Tell me why you feel it's good?

Xia, I'll bite on this one as well. I got to see this troupe in the flesh a few years ago in L.A. I was impressed by their energy, enthusiasm, and athleticism. Also, in talking with the members afterwards, I found them to be very sincere in their intentions and with a serious approach to their training and development as performers and martial artists. My impression was that they were grateful to have an audience and they were also curious about how they presented and open to suggestions for improvement. And most of all, I got a sense of humility -- a trait that I value highly and is becoming a rare commodity in our circles. I have to say that their live show is a much better representation than the youtube videos -- I'm not sure if all of the girls that I saw are still with the troupe, but all I can say is that the experience of seeing them and then interacting with them afterwards left me with a good impression. I knew I would get blasted for my belief that I respect anyone who trains in martial arts with a good, honest effort and sincere intentions, regardless of style or talent level, but that is how I really feel. Very few of us will be a successful UFC fighter, or a national forms champ, or have our own successful school, but the one thing that unites us all is our desire for self-improvement in the path we have chosen.

A lot of people are criticizing the skill level of the girls and saying the technique/choreagraphy is weak -- that's a matter of opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs. The girls themselves are pretty open about their own experience -- some are passionate martial artists while others are mainly dancers. As has been said already in this post, we all started somewhere and I'm sure there were experienced practitioners who could level the same complaints against all of us when we were new students.

Xia, I do believe your intentions are noble, and I know you to be a good guy, but the idea that these girls are somehow disgracing the martial arts community is going a little far. There is nothing pornographic or sexually suggestive in their act. They do play upon their sexiness, but that is Marketing 101. Sexy/beautiful sells -- always has, always will. Is it mere coincidence that KFM's own Got Qi? girls happen to be slim and rather attractive? You won't ever see my ugly mug holding up a product on TV or in a magazine. It seems as if some of you have a moralistic objection to these girls using their beauty as a means of advertising, but to be honest, I find the presentation to be rather tame in comparison to say, ring girls at MMA events. Their image is more of a take off on Anime and Cosplay. It's not like they are performing in thongs and bikini tops.

As far as the idea that martial artists should be speaking up when they see something they think is crap -- maybe it's just my personality, but I believe in more of a "live and let live" philosophy. I have had some world-class teachers over the years, and I know I've been lucky in that regard, so I am very picky in terms of who I spend my time training with. It's a temptation to be elitist when you're in a situation like that -- I know most of the posters on this board have had top quality instruction too and the martial arts are more than just a hobby or pasttime, so it's something that is near and dear to all of us. But I just shrug off the McDojos and Chi-Blast Masters. I'm never going to waste my time with a school/teacher I don't respect or my money on a seminar that I feel is most likely bogus. If someone wants to spend their money and time with stuff like that, it's their prerogrative and it's not like someone is holding a gun to their head to do it. And just because I think a certain school would be a waste of time for me, at my stage in training, doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't benefit from it and be happy to train there. I prefer to spend my efforts building things up rather than tearing them down -- time is a precious resource and I'd rather expend my efforts in improving myself and the world I value. I would go to see the Kung Fu Femmes again, simply because it's entertaining, and I don't think they are trying to be anything but that.

These forums can be entertaining themselves I must admit, or none of us would continue to post. Being able to post from behind a screen can loosen the lips a bit, which can be good for discussion, but I'd be willing to bet that quite a bit of what is said here wouldn't be said if we were all talking face-to-face.

[The Xia]

I'll give the Kung Fu Femmes one thing. They probably work hard to put on this show. But look at it this way. Have you ever seen a movie that you don't like and tell your friends, "This sucks." You probably have. The people that made the movie likely worked very hard to put what you saw on the silver screen. Still, that doesn't negate your right to criticize. I have not seen the whole performance but I wasn't impressed with the choreography and skill that I saw on the videos. There's nothing wrong with being beginners but how many beginners charge money for shows? Time with some good trainers and new choreography may do the trick. However, the other aspect is the content. To me, "Boys go for the glory. Girls go for the kill." is cringe worthy. If this is indicative of the writing, I feel that needs big improvement. Then there is the issue of what the show is about. The videos are tagged with "Catfight". That tells me something. What I saw leads me to believe it's basically selling sex with martial arts being exploited as the vehicle. I think this aspect is what really brings on the panning from many of the posters. It does for me anyway. So if this is what the show is about, the whole core of the show (and the other aforementioned aspects) would have to change in order for my opinion to. But wouldn't that be a new show entirely?
To chinadoll and tonylaudati,
I don't think telling people how you think they should act or how they are "wrong" or anything along those lines is going to make you look better in those people's minds. It won't work on me. In fact, some of tonylaudati’s responses lower my opinion... Remember this, I don’t think posters that are giving you negative reviews are doing it to be “big bad mean boogiemen”. I'm certainly not. I'm being honest. Many of them express why they don’t like it. I have and firepalm has. I feel that you'd be better served looking into what all of these posters are actually saying.
Specifically to Li Kao,
This should also put my long post about the martial arts world in better light. Mcdojos and B.S. artists are a separate issue but I did mention them and you addressed them so I’ll respond with this. I suggest reading this article. http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php...ewarticle&id=3

[chinadoll]

Li Kao,

You ideas and theories are right on the mark for me. I believe that one should always expend their efforts in attaining a higher state of well being. Even if I don't like something, like a movie or performance of some sort, the last thing I would do is go on some internet forum and start blasting them. To me, that would be a waste of time. However, if I have something useful to say, constructive criticisms included, then it is worth the energy.

Shaolinsky, not to get all girly here, but your words truly touched me. I even got a little teary eyed! Ha Ha! Thank you so much for your encouragement. After one works so hard, it is a wonderful thing to get some praise. You say you are a teacher. As a parent, I would want my kids to study after someone that is encouraging and positive. Thank you for taking the time and energy to say such good things.

Both of you have said things, that I couldn't express myself. Thank you for imparting wisdom and encouragement to me and my troupe. And also, for understanding our true intentions as a troupe. People can say what they want, but we as a troupe LOVE what we do. Tony is also a very passionate and noble director. People can have their opinions about him, but I've worked with many directors over the past years working in LA. I've never known someone to care for the well-being of his performers more than he. He is very protective of us, and will jump to our aid if he feels he needs to. He is a good man, and he's a good person to have on your side.

Firepalm, I must have touched a nerve with my "profile" of you. As you keep referring back to it in your posts. You also say that if something doesn't settle well with me I avoid it. I've addressed many issues that have unsettled me. But I do not have the time or will to address EVERYTHING that is said. I do not feel the need to correspond with negative energy. I also do not feel the need to state my opinions repeatedly and then back them up with "resources." I used to be on my universities debate team. I got my share of arguing, and although it can be fun, I learned long ago that most things are not worth arguing over.

Firepalm, Xia, you are welcome to your opinions. But for the most part, whenever anyone says anything good, or nice, you have to blast them (especially Firepalm). Why the animosity? Who are you trying to convince? Do you feel if you get more people to blast the Kung fu femmes, this will validate the time spent on this forum? If you wanted to state your opinion, you could have just left it at one post. But I sense there is a longing to argue.

I myself am done arguing. I find myself on this forum much too often within the last few days. I really should be spending more time training and doing sit ups. Heck, I should be doing sit ups right now. But instead, I'm glued to my computer speaking to ears that will not hear anyway. The next thing that will be said is probably going to be another blast just to have the last word in. Go ahead though, there are many people that don't like Kung fu femmes. I'm aware of that, but why would I spend my time corresponding with them and trying to please them? I could see why people wouldn't like our troupe. Okay, so now what? You want me to quit? You want me to bend over backwards trying to please you? Want to be the new director? Just relax. So you don't like it. Okay, now it's time to move on. Maybe in the future you will like it. Maybe you won't. Either way, it doesn't matter.

So, yeah, if you find I'm ignoring some folks, don't get your panties in a bunch. I've stated my reasons for doing so. I do not need to repeat myself or clarify. If you still don't understand, please reread the post.

[firepalm]

Chinadoll said,

Why the animosity?

Because you call it Kung Fu and by virtue of what I see as bad choreography & poor skill levels (some packaging that I don't care for) and I think it misrepresents Kung Fu / Chinese Martial Arts. As I have said if it wasn't called Kung Fu Femmes no problem. That is not a blast just a statement of my opinion.

Chinadoll you are obviously impassioned about what you do & you should pursue what you wish to do. You don't have to bend over backwards to please me or anyone else, honestly if you are doing what you want to do, then do it. However be prepared that should you come on forum like this where many of us have indeed been at this a very long time & have seen a lot more of the whole spectrum of things (so to speak) be prepared for the fact that some may not particurily like what you do and some such as myself (Xia & others) may see it as something worth getting into a heated debate over (granted sometimes forgettng simple manners & getting a little too sarcastic). As to blasting others they make a point or call out me on one of my points I simply respond & clarify. Sometimes things escalate but I think looking back I am probably not the only guilty party here (nature of things when you get two different sides that feel impassioned about something).

Firepalm, I must have touched a nerve with my "profile" of you.

No really not the case the nerve that you struck with me is only do to with Kung Fu / CMA (as far as I can recall I only brought up twice). I really don't take anything personally on here and I don't think you should either, I do not judge you as person in anyway, my comments were only to do with your show. Granted Tony's couple of attacks certainly got a few of the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Tony also might well be a good person and works well with your group and that's a good thing, I've always maintained that while I might not get along with someone they could be the greatest person to others. I realize also that Tony may well have thought he was speaking in your defense, hopefully this is a relationship that will continue for you & your group. No blast here but from where I stand the fellow could also do with a lesson in manners.

Chinadoll said,

speaking to ears that will not hear anyway.

Ditto, sorry just couldn't resist getting that last little sarcastic word in! (personality flaw I have)

[GeneChing]

No matter what is said, I like the idea of a female martial arts performance troupe. I'm trying to remember some previous ones, and for some reason, the only thing I can think of offhand were Sho Kosugi's ninjettes. And if memory serves, they just stood next to Sho as he hosted bad kung fu movies. There's a certain element of cheesiness that's always pervaded martial arts performance. I imagine it stems back to the jianghu. I hope that there will be more female martial arts performance troupes, more skilled, more authentic, more scantily clad. OK, just kidding about that last part. Well, sort of kidding.

Anyway, chinadoll, we appreciate you taking the time to discuss your performance with our fellow members. Obviously, you've got some support and some critics. I encourage you to adventure past this particular thread and into the realm of the rest of the forum. This thread, being about Kung Fu Femmes, will always put you on the defensive. But there are so many other threads on all sorts of subjects. Any practitioner will find something to chat about. There are a surprising amount of resources here, especially if you dig through the archives. Hope to see you on some other threads than your own.

[lunghushan]

Personally, I don't think there's enough women in the martial arts and active in fighting and performing, and that's kindof sad because honestly I'm a bit tired of looking at guys all the time.

Until we get a new sentient species to play with, perhaps we should support women martial artists more.

But honestly it seems like there's something ingrained in humanity -- maybe it's a social condition or something, that says that women aren't martial artists, or aren't serious fighters on the level of men. Maybe it's a lack of testosterone or something -- I don't know.

Anyways, I think the Kung Fu Femmes is a great thing, although I wouldn't go to a show because I wouldn't go to a show to see guys jumping around and doing stunts either -- too much of a circus thing.

But maybe you can get some women UFC style fighting going on.

[tonylaudati]

Please check out this short bio on four of our girls --

-- WHOOPS! Hold on.

Okay, I put on my Kevlar:

http://www.current.tv/watch/20778647

[firepalm]

Does that include a helmet? Cause I got my finger on the trigger & your mug in my crosshairs!

Just joking! Good luck

[lunghushan]

All I can say is accckkk ... why does everybody promote all their stuff everywhere? I think I need to stop posting on the Internet because it is a total waste of time.

[tonylaudati]

Be sure and aim for my heart.

As Claude Rains put it in CASABLANCA, that's my least vulnerable spot.

[shaolinsky]

Once again palm - you are wrong.

Do you know the meaning Shaolinsky?

KUNG or GONG = Work or Skill
FU = Skill level or Effort

Kung Fu literally means The skill one has in what he is doing. It could be your skill in cooking, fishing, cleaning or even dancing and doing martial arts on a stage... It has nothing to do with Chinese other than the words being the Chinese language. What you are taking offense at is completely immaterial. Most people use Kung Fu the same way they use Karate - to describe martial arts in general. Of course, we understand the difference because we have studied (I too am most passionate for the Chinese martial arts) but that does not mean that everyone using the term must know the same, unless you are completely racist. Maybe that is the problem here?

And just to help clarify your other wrongs:

Wu Shu = Dancing Art - used to describe the non combative form of martial arts enforced after China became a communist country and all fighting arts were BANNED.

Zhong Guo Kung Fu = Chinese Kung Fu. Maybe this is what you are referring to when taking offense? Oh wait, nobody used this term did they?

I no longer feel you deserve any respect. Your adolescent behavior and immature comments have already revealed what type of person you are.

You are a suppressive person. Unless you agree with something - you feel you must do everything in your power to negate it. You must always be in control, and when you are not you want everyone to feel that you are. Thats why you must always have the last say isn't it?

Your profile states you joined in 1969???? Are you seriously 60 years old? or - more likely, you are a highschooler logged in under your dads profile and making a fool out of his name. You should know - that is what you are doing if thats the case. I can't believe someone of that age would really be on a forum like this as much as you are.

Discipline? Discipline is knowing when to keep your mouth shut unless you have something intelligent to say. Discipline is defending those that are being attacked even if you are out numbered. Discipline is nowhere to be seen in any of your posts.

I have had several thousand students in my life time, believe it or not, it doesn't matter. I have taught in schools all over the U.S. and Taiwan. I know how to deal with students with a mouth like yours. A stick is often handy. And when it gets really tough - usually around the 6th or 7th grade - then you must teach humility. This only comes about through hard, hard work and experiencing something difficult. Someone your age would surely have learned some humility in his lifetime. That is why I believe you are of an adolescent age. You really remind me of some of my young rebellious students.

A bit of humility would greatly help in your situation. Keep practicing, and you will inevitably learn some.

[shaolinsky]

Li Kao,

Shaolinsky, not to get all girly here, but your words truly touched me. I even got a little teary eyed! Ha Ha! Thank you so much for your encouragement. After one works so hard, it is a wonderful thing to get some praise. You say you are a teacher. As a parent, I would want my kids to study after someone that is encouraging and positive. Thank you for taking the time and energy to say such good things.

Chinadoll,

I meant every word. Please let me know when your next show is, I will definitely be there if it's in the Los Angeles area You girls definitely deserve to be defended. Absorb the information and critiques here that will make your performance better. Weed out the negative, disregard them. As you said, they really are a waste of time.

Keep up the good work.