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Thread: Ninjas!

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Equalizer View Post
    trust me.



    Yeah.....NO.

  2. #77
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    where the @#$%!!@$*&^ did you get this BS?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    Kage no Shinobi roughly translated into not existing.

    Also there are a number of Japanese which do not believe ninja ever really existed. That its just folk tales so to speak.

    Shinto, the belief structure established in feudal japan is now viewed in the same light as extreme cults would be here, for example the whole David Curesh/ Waco thing.



    no


    NO


    and


    NO


    Holy crap! You win the ignorant mo-fo of the year award.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkokusai View Post
    Yeah.....NO.
    hhhmmmm....... okay
    "You have sought out a sacred life, a Way that is immovable achivied only from the pure heart. You should seek humiliation, rather than glorification, annominity , rather than fame, the humble mind, not the beautiful mind. As the peddles of a cherry blossem fall, so shall you"

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkokusai View Post



    no


    NO


    and


    NO


    Holy crap! You win the ignorant mo-fo of the year award.
    If I'm the ignorant mo-fo then you must get the douche of the year award.

    Let me repost from my 3rd sentence, real slow since you have trouble comprehending. Ready...here it is...

    When....I....lived...in....Japan....

    So ummm...I guess I got that BS from...I dunno....Japanese people? Idiot.

    You know, I think I got a tire iron or a crow bar or something in the shed you could kinda use to pry that foot out your mouth. But its still going to be pretty tough for you. Might need some help getting your head out your *** first.

    Since it seems the intelligence level of some members of the forum isn't really up to par, let me say again that this is just gee wiz info. Its pretty well documented that there was a secret sect of society which existed in Japan and various exploits of its members.

    The whole Shinobi translation conversation came up at dinner while a couple friends of mine were helping me with my Japanese language homework. You know since again...they were Japanese and all. We got on talking about martial arts, samurai and ninjas and all that stuff. He drew out the kanji for it and explained to me. I thought it was interesting because as an American, I've always thought...OH Ninjas...Coooooolll!

    The shinto thing, I asked once in conversation on Japanese culture/religion about this. Anyone thats taken a course on Asian studies would know that religious practices throughout Asia are often a mixture of various faiths. Anyways when I brought Shinto up I got some rather unpleasant looks. I asked my friend Michon what I did wrong and his words were "Shinto...very bad." Later after dinner he explained to me the cult status it has sort of now holds in Japan. Actually "cult" was the exact word he used in describing it too. Though to be fair that's mostly mainland. In Okinawa they really don't care as the Ryukyus have there own faith backgrounds prior to the influx when Japan took over.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    If I'm the ignorant mo-fo then you must get the douche of the year award.

    Let me repost from my 3rd sentence, real slow since you have trouble comprehending. Ready...here it is...

    When....I....lived...in....Japan....

    So ummm...I guess I got that BS from...I dunno....Japanese people?


    You.....are.....an.....idiot.


    You have wrongly extrapolated from a sample far too small and unrepresentative for the conclusions you have drawn.

    For instance:

    If an American were to tell a Japanese person that the word 'niggardly' was an insult to African Americans and 'proved' it by showing him where the epithet was contained in the word, would he be correct, or would that listener have been misinformed?

    If that same visitor was told by some hard-core fundamentalist that evolution was a lie and that the Bible was to be read literally, would he be correct in assuming all or even a majority of Americans held that view? What if he were visiting some NY snobs and was told that Evangelical Christians are 'considered' evil nuts by 'Americans'? What subjective viewpoint would be the 'correct' one?

    Keeping your ears open doesn't help if your brain is a block of wood.


    Maybe you should go back again and try not being stupid this time. You might get more out of the trip.

  6. #81
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    Ninjutsu is cool, you get to wear funky boots with the big toe separated, a mask, throw around some shuriken, play with swords and sticks, maybe even a blow gun and then drink sake.

    WTF is wrong with that ?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkokusai View Post
    You.....are.....an.....idiot.


    You have wrongly extrapolated from a sample far too small and unrepresentative for the conclusions you have drawn.

    For instance:

    If an American were to tell a Japanese person that the word 'niggardly' was an insult to African Americans and 'proved' it by showing him where the epithet was contained in the word, would he be correct, or would that listener have been misinformed?

    If that same visitor was told by some hard-core fundamentalist that evolution was a lie and that the Bible was to be read literally, would he be correct in assuming all or even a majority of Americans held that view? What if he were visiting some NY snobs and was told that Evangelical Christians are 'considered' evil nuts by 'Americans'? What subjective viewpoint would be the 'correct' one?

    Keeping your ears open doesn't help if your brain is a block of wood.


    Maybe you should go back again and try not being stupid this time. You might get more out of the trip.
    Here you go again. I'm going to repeat this for the third time...gee wiz. Its like the stuff you find off the back of your box of lucky charms. But then you do come off as the type that would go argue with your waitress because your fortune cookie was wrong.

    As for extrapolations. Its not a post about conclusions. Its a post about another viewpoint from a certain group of people that most don't consider to exist. By your own examples it is evident. How many Christians are in our country? And yet also how many are there who look down on such beliefs? What are those guys called again? Atheists that's right. Why is it such a stretch for your mind to take the fact that such a notion is possible for another country and culture?

    You know Japan is a first world country. They do have modern technology and...oh my gosh! People smart enough to develop and use it Who are those guys? Oh yeah, scientists and engineers. **** and I thought only Americans had those.

    You would be one so presumptuous to think that others could not be so far along on thought to even question their own society and wonder if it is truly the correct way. So not only are you an idiot, you're also arrogant. But I guess that's to be expected from someone with a screen name like yours....****stink? Yeah way to be juvenile.

    Oh I'm well aware that stats show 80-85% of the Japanese populace practice either Buddhism or Shinto. I'm also well aware that its one of the national religions, or at least was. World War 2 did a number on it though. But again, that still doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of people which are questioning those beliefs and yes believe them to be at times extreme, archaic and in this case cultish.

    There are a lot of reasons that could go into this aside from the Atheists...Most people identify themselves as Buddhist even if they practice Shinto traditions. Why? Look it up yourself I'm not Shinto, personally I think Buddhism at times can be a bit gloomy for my taste. And its about impossible to seperate the Buddhist from the Shinto in a persons life as it has become so interwoven in culture..most people do practice both. Also Buddhism despite being imported, is much more standardised in its structure. Shintoism doesn't (or at least historically didn't) have a defined doctrine. There isn't much known about its origins. Shinto practices weren't standised until the 19th century. And even now actual practices can still vary by location.

    But you know what, even more the problem with that 85% statistic is that it doesn't take into account the human element. A lot of people there aren't any different than here. They aren't really religious but they say yeah, I'm a Buddhist or Shinto or whatever. But they'll tell you, they say it because its proper. As if its shameful to not believe. You know kinda like some people here. Just a lot of people don't open up about personal topics unless they really know you. Especially to foreigners. That's the problem with trying to be internet sociologists. There is only so much you can get from numbers and clicking that mouse key of yours isn't good enough. Sometimes the only way to really know people is to well...know them. But well, I'm not going to question everyone between Osaka and Tokyo just so you can get your suitable sample. A person can only base of their own experiences. Anything other than that and they are just taking someones word for it. In this case I suppose I'm doing both but at least I try to understand by going directly to the people and that means the people that I was close to; my professors, my friends, my fiancee and anybody I could drag off the street for a question. I'm starting to think that's more than you have bothered to do. You know all real discovery can only be varified in the field...

    Now one last time. The original comments were just little fun bits of info. I'm not going to go any deeper into some debate about the validity of information the source there of or the practices of a country. I just don't care about you or your views enough to spell it out.

    Now for the people denying ninjas existance. I don't know what to tell you about that...its pretty cut and dry. Some do some don't. Its just funny, most times I would bring it up, in a movie store or wherever. I usually get one of 2 reactions. They laugh and say ninjas aren't real. Or they laugh and say all Americans like ninja. Take it for what you want I don't care.

    Ronin
    I'm not arguing about the coolness of the ninja. I mean how bad @$$ do you have to be to have your own wardrobe, accessories and still be feared like none other? Those ninja booties beat all. What was that old movie when the ninja put a star between his toes and then round kicked it into some dudes neck? Only a ninja would come up with that.

    I could try to explain the stuff as it was once described to me but I'm probably going to fudge it up. Every one pretty much knows or can at least search the direct translation of shinobi but like many direct translations it just doesn't really carry the full meaning. The way I understood it was like this;

    There is a lot of different history on names in Japanese culture. You can look it all up rather easily so I'm not going to go into it, its way too much. But there are two that I'll touch on. One is that in ancient times the common people were considered to be property of the emperor and would sometimes be named according to status. Also there is the custom of taking a name for your given craft. This was something that was typical of performers, tea masters and the like. I do remember reading in an essay also that at times people were known simply by their craft itself. If a guy was a blacksmith...it wasn't uncommon for him to be known simply as blacksmith. Like I said though there is a lot of reading you could do on this and there are things which I have read that conflicts with what I was taught by my professor in Japan. So take what I say with that in mind.

    The general idea I wanted to get at though was that people were known by what they did and how they contributed to their community. And its easy to see why that is important because with so much to be done, no one man could do it all. And yet for a village to survive, the tasks had to be done. And one could take some pride in what they contributed (this also went into an interesting discussion with my Professor on the origin of Yakuza and some of the recent laws passed in Japan...but that's another story).

    Now with this in mind, you have some back fill on things I was thinking during the discussion in which a friend explained the whole ninja thing...or tried to anyways. The problem is that a ninja with all the circumstances of such a life, could not be known by these means. A ninja, could not be known period. It was said that it could be possible to live with a ninja in your village and you'd never have known. It basically living a second life. But yet that life depended on secrecy and thus no one could know the reality. There is no credit given for accomplishments (which happens to be another way a person could have been given a "name"). That is sort of what it meant by living in shadows. And why it was described to me as to not exist. You were living and breathing, but you weren't actually there. See I fudged it up. Its a cultural thing though I suppose...I still think Oh ninjas cool!

    Anyways sorry to the other posters for hijacking the thread. I couldn't resist the ego jockey. I just thought the original post might have been interesting to some of you. It was never meant to be taken so seriously.
    Last edited by SoCo KungFu; 06-05-2007 at 12:42 AM. Reason: typos

  8. #83
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    What's funny is that you obviously Wikipedia-ed your little heart out to try and support the nonsense you posted before and essentially came up with nothing, only further enhancing your image as an ignorant slob unable to process the tiny bits of utterly subjective opinion someone may have spilled near you.
    Last edited by unkokusai; 06-05-2007 at 08:50 AM.

  9. #84
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    The only ninjutsu I ever came in contact with that made any sense was the kind taught in the Koryu's like the Shinkage-ryu and its off-shots and the TSKSR.

  10. #85
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    everybody here's freakin retarted. why don't you guy's stop insulting eachother, stop trying to prove you're right, and actually go learn something about the art, OR just bang your head against a wall.......that's more productive. It's obvious both of you don't know much about this art.
    "You have sought out a sacred life, a Way that is immovable achivied only from the pure heart. You should seek humiliation, rather than glorification, annominity , rather than fame, the humble mind, not the beautiful mind. As the peddles of a cherry blossem fall, so shall you"

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Equalizer View Post
    everybody here's freakin retarted. why don't you guy's stop insulting eachother.


    LOL, was that supposed to be a joke?

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkokusai View Post
    What's funny is that you obviously Wikipedia-ed your little heart out to try and support the nonsense you posted before and essentially came up with nothing, only further enhancing your image as an ignorant slob unable to process the tiny bits of utterly subjective opinion someone may have spilled near you.
    Wrong again, old class notes actually. Thanks for all the attention though with all the people here you could be trying to mess with...I guess its true when they say love your haters...they are your biggest fans. Hey let me know where I can send you an autograph...gotta keep my greatest fan happy


    GE, Giuseppe do either of you know of a man...I think his name was Stephen Hayes or something like that. I could be wrong its been about 8 years. Anyways he had a book that used to be advertised in the KF and BlackBelt mags. I think I found it in the library. Said he learned Bujinkan from Hatsumi. Is the name familiar?

    He claimed the origin of ninpo came from a chance meeting between a fujitive ronin and a chinese holy man. Is that the way either of you were instructed?

    In the book it listed the 9 disciplines you presented. But when he got to the techs he broke it down differently. First I think he divided it into a description of unarmed...striking arts and throwing/grappling arts. Then armed striking arts and throwing/grappling. Is this what was referred to as taijutsu and jutaijutsu? Later he went into weapon skills but didnt go very deep. He spent more time on categorizing into the 4 earthly elements and the void. Any of this familiar with you?

    Going back to the whole ronin/chinese mystic thing. If that is the way you also heard it, what exactly did come from the chinese side of it? It seems that a majority of the technical skills came from Japanese military (samurai) skills. Are there any links to chinese fighting skills or is it mostly just spiritual practices? And IF there is any chinese fighting theory involved, how does it manifest itself?

    I did see one documentary once on Bujinken. Unfortunately it was on a Japanese news program and at the time I knew almost no Japanese. I did like some of the demonstrated defenses though. A lot of throws and locks that on appearance..wasn't anything really different that things I've seen done by jiujutsu guys but he (Hatsumi) added in a conceiled bladed to the apps. Like the one he made the guy go down neck onto the blade...ouch.

    He's shacked up in a place called Noda or Nado or something like that right? I brought it up to my girl once, turned out she knows the area...grandparents lived there. Unfortunately she also said there was no way in hell that she was going to let us move out there She thinks I spend too much time doing martial arts as is....

  13. #88
    Bujinkan sucks big time. I studied it for 9 years got my shodan in 96. I wish I had spent that time doing judo instead. First off they don't spar only do out dated partner fake fights. There is no kind of conditioning. So all Bujinkan members are out of shape. There are no solo form to practice. No competition you can enter.

    So you can't fight with it. It doesn't get you in shape. It's not a art form. But it's cool to play ninja.

    Also when you are training with a partner they start giving you correction. Makes you want to just start beating the guy and say **** all this kata bull****.

  14. #89
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    don't bother, I know the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    Wrong again, old class notes actually. .

    Really? Because before you said it was just something you heard over dinner and while talking with friends. Do you usually take notes in those situations, or were you lying?

  15. #90
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    nice job missing the point AGAIN, numbskull

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    How many Christians are in our country? And yet also how many are there who look down on such beliefs? What are those guys called again? Atheists that's right. Why is it such a stretch for your mind to take the fact that such a notion is possible for another country and culture?



    And atheists are a decided minority in the US, so overhearing the comments of one over dinner would hardly represent grounds for drawing broad conclusions about what 'Americans' think, would it?


    In any case:

    The ways in which that example does not apply to this case are, I'm afraid, too complicated for someone like you to understand.

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