Origin of Feeman Ong's exercises

[pilgrimsunwukun]

Was wondering if someone could tell what they know o fthe history of arm grabs, teet lohan chin chuan, the Taming The tiger set (that is high level because it's longer then other versions-if I knew how I I'd put the smile face here) , the Body exercise, and the 5 animal exercises. A buddy who was in the sytem said the Ongs were really into the snake exercises.

He also said that Master Ong really concentrated on the Body/Iron Body exercise and arm grabs, dispite having access to several advanced exercise programs.

Also, I'd like to say Ohio does have some really good practitioners, I'd single out Mike B. who gave me a lot and taught me two conditioning drills.

Steve H

[MonkeyKingUSA]

Steve,
The exercise that they refer to as Nine Times is an odd version of the Hung Gar set Tid Seen Kuen (Iron Wire). Some of the other exercises are similar to the dynamic tension exercises found at the beginning of Gung Gee Fook Fu and Fu Hok Sheung Ying Kuen. In case you are interested in my sources, the examples that I have seen of their exercises were shown to me by Richard Pitts Jr. and Wayne Schultz during the late 80's.
I was told many years ago that Feeman had an extensive 8mm library which may have been the source of some of his material.
Richard A. Tolson

[pilgrimsunwukun]

Yeah i know about the stories of Master Kou, Li, and another monk along with the movies, etc.
There must be something to the body exercise though since even out here I've met people who went to the school or learned the body from Chicoine and everyone who did the body for years or even less says it really gave them energy, conditioned the body from the sternum out, etc. That's happenned with me.

the difference is that those guys all did the herbs, I heard the 9 times had some really bitter herbs that you did dailty for like a month. So maybe the key to a lot of those programs was the herbs.

Steve AKA Pilgrim

[MonkeyKingUSA]

Steve,
I thought the conditioning exercises were great. I practiced and taught them for years. They were excellent for iron arm training.
Regardless of what one might think of Feeman's tokens (fist sets), every student I ever met from his lineage that practiced the body exercises was SOLID.
Maybe it is just "hometown pride", but I have met many martial artists from around the world and I think the Akron, Ohio area has some of the toughest.

[iron tiger]

I have met many martial artists from around the world and I think the Akron, Ohio area has some of the toughest

Couldn't agree more!

[JDK]

Couldn't agree more!

Amen..I will add my agreement too.


JDK

[Li Ma-Keh]

Steve, I am an old' Hep-Sing/Green Dragon student , and I had an Excellent training experiance there! The 'arm-grabs'(Snake Turns Over), 3-Star Blocking & Timing, & 'all' of the Body/Strength programs that I saw first-hand were very beneficial!!! I was at Si-Fu Allens' school for aprx. 8yrs., then I left on professional/friendly terms to pursue Jazz Guitar at Y.S.U.(Youngstown State'), then ended up in Chicago's Chinatown studying Wing-Chun from Coach-Jimmy Yee at the Chinese Athletic Club in '80, now I'm a 13yr. 'indoor' student of Si-Fu Nick Gracenin's in Sharon,PA.. So, over my 35yrs of training, I got to see some really Great & really goofy things in seminars, competitions,different schools,..etc.', but the foundation that was set by my Hep-Sing/Green Dragon training was authentic and I wouldn't have traded it for anything! Master Ong recieved alot of his training at 'Bai-Yun Tsz',(White Cloud Temple) in Southern China & from Master Gao Dao-Sheng in Tai-Wan. Li Ma-Keh

[JDK]

I agree Li Ma-Keh...

I stated in one of my first posts that foundation and strength training was the main thing I took from Master Ong's School, Chung Sing.

That Foundation wetted my appitite or more, and gave me some basics to seek out other teachers and Styles to compliment what I had learned .

Glad you have found Si-Fu Nick Gracenin....I attended 2 of his classes when he was in the Cleveland area ( cant remember the exact city) but even though I have heard much bad-mouthing concerning him....I have nothing but good memories
and the one training session I joined in was challenging and added to my knowledge. I also witnessed a Demonstration in Akron years ago...and he and his students were very good.

Unfortunetely the Bejing Wushu Team was visiting that same weekend..and after watching their precision timing, flexablity and absolute flawless forms....it was by far superior to anything I had seen up to that point.

I later found out the reason...this Chinese Team spentat least 2 hours every day on the Basics. I mean sometimes 8 hours , 1 hour of which was devoted to NOTHING but warming up and Stretching out!!!!! It was described as the only way to have such a flawless performance. They said...."each movement from a basic stance to the most difficult swirling attack form....are EACH a seperate Pearl..to work on and shine up. Then...you spend the rest of your life stringing the pearls together in your Forms. WOW...That's dedication and self-discipline.

Good Luck..and keep training Hard

JDK

[Li Ma-Keh]

Yes,...we usually spend 30 to 45mins.' just on flexability before we start our forms work. Most Chinese Wu-Shu schools spend at least four to six hours everyday on training,...you're right', 'That's why they are Sooooo Good! Li Ma-Keh.

[pilgrimsunwukun]

I really like the arm grabs program, done it twice. Now usually I do a combo of arm grabs and two exercises learned from another Ohioan. I also like a lot the one South Fist program. Did you ever take that up to 39,72, or 108 reps? I heard John Allen invented the Stone Warrior but said it was from the Wander's Style. I wonder if that is from the Hakka since they were Northern people who were pushed down to Southern China. The Teet Lohan Chin Chuan," from a small goup of monks in a remote region of China," is a good form although I never did it for the required three years.
If you did the 5 animals program for half a year, did you increase the reps of the movements that were done repeatitvely from 10 to 36 or just stay at a particular number?
The body seems to be the best program since it's what I've done the most consistently.
It's nice that you have respect for your old Sifus and had the desire to move on at some point. The guy who taught me the body is very dedicated to Master Ong and I wish he'd be open to see and feel the other good Sifu in the Cleveland/Akron area.
There's so much to learn out there
Pilgrim Sun Wu Kung Steve

[Li Ma-Keh]

Yep',...EVERYTHING that I've learned from ALL of the instructors I've been with is Valueable!!! Some things teach a 'Yin' lesson,..some things teach a 'Yang' lesson,.but, you need both to figure it out,.lol'. I don't think "Iron Warrior" wasn't made-up by Si-Fu Allen,...it goes by another name that I heard somewhere else, but can't recall at the moment? (it might be travelling warrior,..or travelling attendent?) I've changed reps' on most of the exercises and programs over the years just trying to get a different 'feel' once in a while. I've found out from other teachers/schools, that are NO magic numbers when it comes to reps.'! Every school had it's prescribed 'reps.',.and they are ALL different,.LOL'! I've made a few comments on another forum about everybody having a different approach,.sometimes to the same style or form,...that doesn't mean that it's not valid, or just a good exercise, as long as posture and joint line-up are correct. I've been doing ,and teaching Five-Animals for about 30yrs. out of my 35yrs. worth of training,..it is Fantastic,(in my opinion)! 'One Fist South' is also a great exercise,...as well as a short-form done with a heavy pole,( I use a 6ft. lead pipe) from the Iron Butterfly system,( not to be confused with the 60s' rock-group,..LOL'). There are tons of things out there that are excellent,(for example; Akro /Canton area' Si-Fu Tony Yang has Excellent Ba-Ji movement), and yep',..some people are too closed-in to see it, admit it, or try it,...but that takes us right back to "yin heh' yang",(heh' = the balence or harmony of') principles again,..lol. Li Ma-Keh