Any Christian Martial Arts Schools?

[JDK]

I don't usually step into these threads because I have learned that there really is no point in arguing with someone who is clearly not in touch with some aspects of reality.

But reading this thread has brought a question to mind - What responsibility do Sifu's have in accepting and teaching a student who displays behaviors or ideas which indicate an unstable mind?"

Hi Corwyn...nice to me you too.( with all of your 22 posts since 2005 )

So because I am a christian, I am mentally unstable.

I have posted nothing to my knowledge that any true believer in the Bible and Jesus Christ would not at least, even if they have a difference of opinion..agree with much of my posts in that they are Scripturally correct and reflect the views of Millions of Evangelicals in the United States ( Who are obviously also unstable by your standards) If A= B...and B =C...then A also =C get it?

Bold in my faith..yes. Out spoken, maybe a little too much...yes. Controversial
by coming on a MA Site and seeking more knowledge...guilty as charged.

But mentally unstable ??? Sounds like more of a put-down than an accurrate diagnoises.

No matter what secondary reason we have for the study of martial arts, at the base of the learning (if we become at all proficient at it) is the ability to cause great bodily harm to others. We are in effect giving someone an invisible loaded gun. If a man came into your school and said that they wanted to learn martial arts because they were part of the arian brotherhood and wanted to learn how to kill "blackies' with greater skill, would you teach them? If not why not and why accept, encourage and give direction to someone like JDK?

What ? Im a preacher! I dont look for trouble, start fights or try to be evil.
I already KNOW how to cause bodily harm. I strike like a jackhammer and know all the "knock out points" of the human anatomy and my grappling is decent.
Yet in 20 years I have only used my art to defend myself or my loved ones from bodily harm , maybe 5 times. AND only used sufficient force, not overkill. Could I have caused much more damage to certain ones who attempted to injure me or my family ? Absolutely.
But I have a moral obligation to treat life sacred..and do the least damage possible to those who are untrained in fighting arts.

The only difference between this scenario and JDK is that JDK uses more PC language towards the culture and philosophy he deems inferior to his and he at the present time shares his delusion with more people .

Yet the base of his belief - by his own admission as a fundi and the comments he made on this forum- shares the same delusion as the AB members! Depending on his fundi view on pre - mid or post tribulation he wants/needs/must go to war against those whom he's delusions based on a book transcribed from the stories of 2000 year old illiterate goatherds, tell him are demon worshiping inferiors.

While I am not aware of any writings specifically addressing the issue of mental stability it is possible to infer that the rigorous indoctrination of shaolin monks, for example, may very well have included the objective of weeding out the flaky or unstable mind. I am also not aware of any news stories ever of "racist man on a Martial Arts rampage Kills 5" but still -
What responsibility do you think you have as a member of a MA community to address this?

I think your responsibility is to take care of your own business.

I am not going to waste my time debating you on brainwashing and Shaolin Monks etc...as compared with Evangelical Christianty.

Others have posted several threads agreeing that you CAN enter the spirit realm through certain QI-GONG practices. ( I noted on one of your 2 threads that you started you dont "believe in all that qi stuff" so I can overlook your ignorance in those matters.

If I have offended you in my threads...point out the offenses and we can talk.

Otherwise, watch who and why you decide to suddenly "come out of the wood work" and verbally attack...next time.

It is not safe.


JDK

[Wong Ying Home]

" Otherwise, watch who and why you decide to suddenly "come out of the wood work" and verbally attack...next time.

It is not safe.


JDK"

Looks like a vield threat...should'nt you be turning the other cheek

[JDK]

" Otherwise, watch who and why you decide to suddenly "come out of the wood work" and verbally attack...next time.

It is not safe.


JDK"

Looks like a vield threat...should'nt you be turning the other cheek

Oh I didnt mean to incinuate I was threatening him in any way...I was just trying to save the kid from "poppin off" at the wrong person some day...I have no idea where he lives and have no desire for violence.

I apologize if anyone else got that impression, including Corwyn

Freinds?

[Corwyn]

Hi Corwyn...nice to me you too.( with all of your 22 posts since 2005 )

The above is called an argumentum ad hominem., Since when does the number of my previous posts have any relevance to its content?


So because I am a christian, I am mentally unstable.
I have posted nothing to my knowledge that any true believer in the Bible and Jesus Christ would not at least, even if they have a difference of opinion..agree with much of my posts in that they are Scripturally correct and reflect the views of Millions of Evangelicals in the United States ( Who are obviously also unstable by your standards) If A= B...and B =C...then A also =C get it?

Just because your perception of reality agrees with or is based on a book of fantasy - utterly poor, violent and despotic one at that - doesn't mean that it has anything to do with ACTUAL reality!

If A= B...and B =C...then A also =C get it
Yes PERFECTLY and yes I consider ANY one - and by the way basing an arguement on the fact that SO many people believe the same delusion is called an argumentum ad verecundiam or argument from authority which again does NOTHING to prove your point of view correct - who takes such idiotic nonsense as
"I have read a few thing about chi vampirisum, but the informations i got was interesting and a bit disturbing" or rapture, or that the ToE is wrong and there was a flood, seriously to be mentally unstable!

And just so you don't feel picked on I will categorically state that same thing about any chi "practitioner" who claims they have a special source of supernatural power, or wikans who believe in "mother earth" or Incas who used to pierce their *****'s so they could poor that blood on seeds so their crops would grow next year etc. It's just that I haven't head any chi practitioners blowing up clinics or killing doctors because those doctors didn't believe or practice chi.

"But mentally unstable ??? Sounds like more of a put-down than an accurrate diagnoises."


Again, You claim to believe in the existance of chi vampires, demons among other statements you've made and take a book literally that claims the earth is flat and square. That 3 is the number of pi, that the SUN revolves around the earth, that a man can live inside a fish for 3 days, that some guy built a boat and the earth was flooded for 40 days, that owning slaves is OK, that more than 50% -women - of the human race are inherently EVIL. And the list goes on. I not only call that mentally unstable but morally bankrupt!

What ? Im a preacher! I dont look for trouble, start fights or try to be evil.
Ever hear the expression the road to hell
I think your responsibility is to take care of your own business.

I am not going to waste my time debating you on brainwashing and Shaolin Monks etc...as compared with Evangelical Christianty.

"[/i] so I can overlook your ignorance in those matters. This from someone who is afraid of chi vampires Otherwise, watch who and why you decide to suddenly "come out of the wood work" and verbally attack...next time.

It is not safe.

JDK

AND YET with all of the above, despite your hollow protestations in the next post your virulant reaction is plain and evident. And TYPICAL of both the mentally unstable (when their delusions are challanged) and Fundi xians towards anyone who doesn't addhere to the dogmatic nonsense they preach.

And by the way, I've been threatened by far scarier people than you in REAL life
- much to my regret as I get older, sometimes for defending the right of lunatics like you to believe in what they want.

[Corwyn]

Came across this gem, when I went to another forum.
Another perfect example of how delusional people who take the bible literally are.

http://www.dbhome.dk/carlo/cat.htm

[Wong Ying Home]

The Cats link was a hoot...

[lunghushan]

The Cats link was a hoot...

Somebody oughta write a 20 page dissertation on whether or not Christians should eat food, since obviously it was only pagans who ate food before Christianity (there being no Christians until they invented the religion 2000 years ago).

[djcetra]

Personally I feel that the study of Kung Fu and other MA's should be about yourself, exploring yourself and the religion that is you. The real battle here imo is how you choose to perceive things, you don't have to accept any religious teaching anyone shares with you if you don't want to. Work on yourself, believe in yourself and study your own vessel until you know no other but yourself.

Leave organized religion out of MA I say.

Respectz.

[JDK]

AND YET with all of the above, despite your hollow protestations in the next post your virulant reaction is plain and evident. And TYPICAL of both the mentally unstable (when their delusions are challanged) and Fundi xians towards anyone who doesn't addhere to the dogmatic nonsense they preach.

And by the way, I've been threatened by far scarier people than you in REAL life
- much to my regret as I get older, sometimes for defending the right of lunatics like you to believe in what they want.

Corwyn

I didnt mean to incinuate I was threatening YOU in any way...I was just trying to save you from "poppin off" at the wrong person some day...I have no idea where you lives and have no desire for violence.

I apologize if anyone else got that impression.

Freinds? ..or at least can we be civil?

Peace....

JDK
__________________
"It's not WHO'S right...its WHAT'S right" Truth Comes from many Sources
so try and disregard WHO is saying it..and explore if WHAT is being said has any Truth to It.[

[JDK]

Personally I feel that the study of Kung Fu and other MA's should be about yourself, exploring yourself and the religion that is you. The real battle here imo is how you choose to perceive things, you don't have to accept any religious teaching anyone shares with you if you don't want to. Work on yourself, believe in yourself and study your own vessel until you know no other but yourself.

Leave organized religion out of MA I say.

Respectz.

You wroteLeave organized religion out of MA I say.

I wish that were possible djcetra..I really do!!!! Unfortunely they are almost impossible to seperate ( especially Shaolin, and other non-sport-oriented Martial Arts. WHY??? Glad you asked...

Most of the time the Teachers of these arts are descendants or part of a Long Linage of teachers of the past centuries that based a portion of their Fighting Training on their Buddhist, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc... Faith and/or personal Belief system.

As I have stated....I want to practice and learn from a Teacher who is a Born-Again Christian....however, I am more than ready to be taught by a neutral non-religious teacher .

That means .....no bowing, no Pictures Posted on the Walls or Tokens ( forms) done to honor a past Religious Figure/"Master", no Christian teaching, nor Religious teaching of any kind...no physcic meditaton of any form that might accidently involve me in the spirit realm..

I want find such a teacher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So I agree with you...leave ALL KINDS of Organized religion out of the teaching ..this includes ( Buddhist, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Christian etc... Faith and/or personal Belief system.)

JDK

[djcaldwell]

Came across this gem, when I went to another forum.
Another perfect example of how delusional people who take the bible literally are.

http://www.dbhome.dk/carlo/cat.htm

That is one of the most idiotic and simultaneously scariest thing I've read in a while.

There are fundi's in every religion and their insane interpretations of "stories" are taken as fact in blind faith. This is usually a group of people with a longing or desire to be lead. That's what makes them dangerous is that the truth of the matter is most people in this world are not leaders they are followers who do not question for themselves ANYTHING. They are told something is fact because 10000 before them said it is so and so it must be.

I was raised old school Roman Catholic. My grandparents believed the bible was factually based and the fear of God was in us all. My mothers generation questioned things and then our generation well...we question everything for the most part. All of our questioning suddenly turned the bibles factual stories into what the Church refers to today as "didactic fiction" - AKA "FOLK TALES".

So although the basic principles (which are the true fundamentals of most religions) which George Carlin narrowed down to 2 from 10 are pretty much true - Don't Kill and Don't Steal. The rest is nothing for than stories - which if you think about it makes it no different than Scientology - just more widely accepted.

[djcaldwell]

You wroteLeave organized religion out of MA I say.

As I have stated....I want to practice and learn from a Teacher who is a Born-Again Christian....however, I am more than ready to be taught by a neutral non-religious teacher .


That means .....no bowing, no Pictures Posted on the Walls or Tokens ( forms) done to honor a past Religious Figure/"Master", no Christian teaching, nor Religious teaching of any kind...no physcic meditaton of any form that might accidently involve me in the spirit realm..

I want find such a teacher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So I agree with you...leave ALL KINDS of Organized religion out of the teaching ..this includes ( Buddhist, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Christian etc... Faith and/or personal Belief system.)

JDK

Go to a boxing Gym or MMA school - Kung Fu or any other form of MA is not for you.

[X-Warrior]

Don't even get me started. My dad won't talk to me because:

a) I went over there, just to visit.
b) He starts on about the Bible and Christian banter and about how I'll go to hell if I'm not a Christian.
c) I try to pacify him by just listening for a while, but he keeps getting on me and on me, so finally I ask him what proof he has of anything in the Bible.
d) We argue a bit, and I make the case that I have no idea if any of it is true because it's just a book.
e) Now he won't talk to me. Because I 'insulted' his religion. First off, I never mentioned religion, HE mentioned it, and banged it over my head for about 45 minutes before I even responded. Then I just said that I (I, me, not him) have no proof anything in the Bible is true.

Fundies are IMHO a curse on the world.

If they would just mind their own business, who cares what they practice? At least the Asian Christians that I know are more into just doing their own thing. Maybe they've had enough persecution in China and wherever they are from, so they realize that being able to practice their religion in peace is good enough without trying to convert the entire world.

I probably will go to hell, BUT isn't religion a belief? It is what you believe and others believe the other way. I can't understand why people - like your dad - forces his believes on others.

I am a Christian and had Buddhist masters. I always watched their ceremonies with the utmost interest. Doesn't mean I changed to a different belief, because that is also just a belief so why change.

Anyway. I think any Christian can go to any Buddhist school or even a temple. Doesn't mean you are going to hell or anything like that. I think it is a great learning experience to watch others. I have spent over 20 years reading Buddhist writings and watching Buddhist ceremonies only because of my interest and research in the origins of martial arts but I never considered myself a Buddhist. I know a lot about it but I still remained who I always was. And I think if someone is afraid of facing the other religion, than he/she by no means can consider himself a true believer.

-X-

[X-Warrior]

You wroteLeave organized religion out of MA I say.

I wish that were possible djcetra..I really do!!!! Unfortunely they are almost impossible to seperate ( especially Shaolin, and other non-sport-oriented Martial Arts. WHY??? Glad you asked...

Most of the time the Teachers of these arts are descendants or part of a Long Linage of teachers of the past centuries that based a portion of their Fighting Training on their Buddhist, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc... Faith and/or personal Belief system.

As I have stated....I want to practice and learn from a Teacher who is a Born-Again Christian....however, I am more than ready to be taught by a neutral non-religious teacher .

That means .....no bowing, no Pictures Posted on the Walls or Tokens ( forms) done to honor a past Religious Figure/"Master", no Christian teaching, nor Religious teaching of any kind...no physcic meditaton of any form that might accidently involve me in the spirit realm..

I want find such a teacher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So I agree with you...leave ALL KINDS of Organized religion out of the teaching ..this includes ( Buddhist, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Christian etc... Faith and/or personal Belief system.)

JDK

JDK, I think your first step needs to be is to relax. I just posted a message saying that I have studied under Buddhist masters, yet went to Church (Catholic church) every Sunday. I never confused the two, I always kept my martial arts studies as 'martial arts studies'. Just because the teacher had his own belief, doesn't mean I followed it and doesn't mean they ever wanted me to follow them. Just look at them as anyone different from you - everyone is different from everyone is some way. I think you are confused and not able to sort out in what you should believe. Just because you visit a Buddhist church, a Muslim temple (mosque), a martial arts school, doesn't meant you have to become one. Keep it where they are and take what you want to take and leave the rest there.

That is how I have always been. Like I said, I have been studying martial arts history in every tiny little details for over 20 years now and it always involved reading about Buddhism and Zen and the others, but it doesn't mean I became the follower of any of these. I only use the martial arts portion of it and it is still my most beloved and favorite past time.

Again, just keep cool! Don't let the outside confuse your inside.

-X-

[syn]

Denying yourself the oppurtunity to be exposed to other cultures and religions is accepting ignorance.

You can have TMA without the culture, or else it's not traditional. So like most said you best bet is MMA, or boxing.