need an honest answer

[Shaolin Wookie]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA......everyone usually misses the point....

But SDiscool caught it....

Traditional ("true") fighters do compete in the UFC and MMA tournaments. Almost every good fighter has a solid background in a traditional, non-watered down art. They study techniques of other arts to round out what their training misses out on, and to cover personal weaknesses.

But soooooo many MMA guys miss out on that point. Guys like Lidell and everone else are labeled MMA, so they say....I'll go learn MMA. But they're buying their tacos from Chick-Fila, and their burgers from KFC.

If you want to fine-tune your striking, study a traditional striking art. If you want to fine-tune your grappling/throwing, go study a traditional grappling/throwing art. If you want a little bit of this, and a little bit of that (which doesn't add up to much, when the sum is laid out on the table), go to your local MMA school and get bilked out of money by jacks-of-all trades.

You rely on your strengths, and some of the best MMA fighters are far better strikers than grapplers......and they almost always studied traditional arts.......

Is it a coincidence?

Plenty of the Gracies were terrible strikers in their heyday.....do you think they asked other terrible strikers (grapplers) how to strike in order to round out their repertoire?

For those of us not planning to join the UFC anytime soon, we don't really have to deal with lots of grappling or groundfighting, so we don't necessarily train them. Kind of like taking a gun with you on a visit to the Moon.....do you really need it?

Maybe, if an alien happens to come along......but that's a battle I'm fighting in the Kung Fu Forum........props to RD.

[Jeong]

I hate to get sucked into this because it's probably been up about a thousand times before, but here's what I suggest:

There are probably a lot of reasons, but I think one of the bigger ones is that most of the MMA going on today puts CMA at a major disadvantage. Here's why:

1 - They favor people with grappling practice. They do this in two ways. The first is they require gloves for everybody. Now don't get me wrong, I think gloves are certainly a good idea, but if you are a striker it's a lot harder to put somebody on the ground when you're punching through a padded glove. Additionally they rule a bunch of strikes illegal: eye gouges, throat attacks, etc. Again I think these are necessary rules, but if your game is striking a big part of your strategy is to use these weak points. If you can't then you're being forced to have a disadvantage.

2 - They also put chinese (Chin Na) grappling at a disadvantage. You can't do any manipulation of 'small joints', which is a major part of Chinese grappling.

Also, if you look back in the day you'll see that many CMA did participate in MMA outside the US. From what I understand Lee Koon Hung and Tat-Mao Wong both dominated Southeast Asian MMA: the rules in these competitions were less slighted against CMA.

[Lipan]

For all the so called kung fu martial artists out there...can anyone give me an honest answer???

By now I am sure most of you have heard enough stories about how skillful and incredible some kung fu masters are and that kung fu skills can over come external forces coming from bigger opponents etc...you get my point. so my question is for all the greatest kung fu masters and martial artists from all over the world including yourself, why haven't any kung fu man (mantis, tai chi, hung gar, shaolin, choy lay fut, wing chun, xing yi, ba gua, jkd whatever etc...) able to use his skills in the MMA (Mixed Martial Arts tournament) or the Ultimate Fighting Champion??? Is it because of the size, strength, speed or fear or lack of skills or what? Please if anyone can give me an honest answer I would appreciated. And I am sure some of you martial artists out there would like to know too....thanks you for your time and honesty!

Ironcu.

"One idea"

The UFC/Pride/MMA worlds are bound by rules or competetive regulations "NOT taking away from the skill of those involved" and exclude one of the most important aspects of CMA's. I would hope that I would never find myself in a situation where this theory was put to the test but for the traditionalist who found him/herself in an altercation where the only choice was to defend... the vital organs are not off limits. Of course this is not an option in competetive sports but if you are asking why the traditional CMA artists of the past have failed in sport fighting I would have to say that you have dismissed one of their most important tools. Attacking the throat, eyes, temples... scratching, biting. (You get the idea).

"Would you limit the western boxer to only using his/her feet in a fight?"

I don't believe that traditional CMA's are equipped for controlled competition or any sport competetion that is not a fight to the death. CMA's are a tool for self betterment and defense, not for restrictive sports.

[msg]

i think theres no kung.fu fighters in ufc because first you have like to fight because its not the money my friend in the states is working his way up he said it dont pay crap but he likes it .i have sparred with him a lot and a few others . and all i have to say is for a real kung.fu artist would be able to beat ufc guys because lets face the truth its not that hard to stop a grappler. thats the real truth

[couch]

For all the so called kung fu martial artists out there...can anyone give me an honest answer???

By now I am sure most of you have heard enough stories about how skillful and incredible some kung fu masters are and that kung fu skills can over come external forces coming from bigger opponents etc...you get my point. so my question is for all the greatest kung fu masters and martial artists from all over the world including yourself, why haven't any kung fu man (mantis, tai chi, hung gar, shaolin, choy lay fut, wing chun, xing yi, ba gua, jkd whatever etc...) able to use his skills in the MMA (Mixed Martial Arts tournament) or the Ultimate Fighting Champion??? Is it because of the size, strength, speed or fear or lack of skills or what? Please if anyone can give me an honest answer I would appreciated. And I am sure some of you martial artists out there would like to know too....thanks you for your time and honesty!

Ironcu.

What martial art do you do?

And why haven't you thought about reppin for the KF clans? Tell us why YOU don't want to represent KF in the MMA world?

Best,
Kenton Sefcik

[hinokata]

because lets face the truth its not that hard to stop a grappler. thats the real truth

I would have to disagree with you there. If you are up against a good grappler, every single time you strike you put yourself at risk from a grapple of some sort. I'm not saying grappling is better, just pointing out that it's not easy to take anyone that is a master of their art down, regardless if it's grappling or striking.

[NJM]

Edit- I do know of a high level taiji master that is assembling a group of students to train for the UFC. His goal is to have a taiji only fighter win in the UFC, and if you've seen this guy, you can believe it's possible.

Wow, what kind of Tai Chi master would allow his students to flaunt their skills in such a manner?

[Jingwu Man]

I think he is just tired of people saying that TCM can't hold it's own in those competitions. So he's gonna train students to fight MMA with Taiji.

[The Xia]

I think he is just tired of people saying that TCM can't hold it's own in those competitions. So he's gonna train students to fight MMA with Taiji.

If this person or yourself doesn't mind, who is he?

[Samurai Jack]

Banned. Nice one Gene.

[unkokusai]

Wow, what kind of Tai Chi master would allow his students to flaunt their skills in such a manner?

Why not?

[unkokusai]

and all i have to say is for a real kung.fu artist would be able to beat ufc guys because lets face the truth its not that hard to stop a grappler. thats the real truth

Ah, he makes with the jokes, he does.

[Samurai Jack]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA......everyone usually misses the point....

But SDiscool caught it....

Traditional ("true") fighters do compete in the UFC and MMA tournaments. Almost every good fighter has a solid background in a traditional, non-watered down art. They study techniques of other arts to round out what their training misses out on, and to cover personal weaknesses.

But soooooo many MMA guys miss out on that point. Guys like Lidell and everone else are labeled MMA, so they say....I'll go learn MMA. But they're buying their tacos from Chick-Fila, and their burgers from KFC.

If you want to fine-tune your striking, study a traditional striking art. If you want to fine-tune your grappling/throwing, go study a traditional grappling/throwing art. If you want a little bit of this, and a little bit of that (which doesn't add up to much, when the sum is laid out on the table), go to your local MMA school and get bilked out of money by jacks-of-all trades.

You rely on your strengths, and some of the best MMA fighters are far better strikers than grapplers......and they almost always studied traditional arts.......

Is it a coincidence?

Plenty of the Gracies were terrible strikers in their heyday.....do you think they asked other terrible strikers (grapplers) how to strike in order to round out their repertoire?

For those of us not planning to join the UFC anytime soon, we don't really have to deal with lots of grappling or groundfighting, so we don't necessarily train them. Kind of like taking a gun with you on a visit to the Moon.....do you really need it?

Maybe, if an alien happens to come along......but that's a battle I'm fighting in the Kung Fu Forum........props to RD.

Yes, now here is an argument worth listening to. I was down at the local MMA school the other day watching a class. My buddy has studied judo and aikido for many years and he practices there. There's another friend of mine into ninjutsu (don't laugh, he likes it so what the hell). So I asked the ninja guy after the class if this is where he learned to box (I used to box and he's got some mad skills). He told me he trains for that at the boxing gym. Apparently the only people there who only do MMA are the people there for fitness. All the advanced people started elsewhere, and still maintain thier skills. I've gotta say the judo/aikido guy is scary good at grappling. I sort of felt redeemed since I've done judo, boxing, hsing-i and aikido.

Anyhow, I can't think of a single pro MMA guy who hasn't trained in multiple styles with various artists. That's what MMA means, right? Also, apparently the whole "MMA is the best style" idea is totally foreign to these folks. These guys compete too.

[msg]

look i not saying grappling is no good its just for the ring ....famous words it takes to long will not work in real life .lets face it your on the streets you want to end it as fast as you can no time to play around on the ground any kind of MA was not meant to look like the movies or to stand and wait for a punch or a kick to grap

[hinokata]

look i not saying grappling is no good its just for the ring ....famous words it takes to long will not work in real life

I really hope for your sake that you are never involved in a street fight, and especially not against anyone who has had some grappling training. As far as it not working in a "real" fight, I know better. It's saved my butt on at least one occasion, and helped me to avoid fights that were being escalated by the other party (Drunks can be fantastic people ), as a little pain compliance can "assist" them in seeing the error of their ways.

.lets face it your on the streets you want to end it as fast as you can no time to play around on the ground

Not all grappling has to take you to ground (See: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/grapple ). Grappling is not the same as groundfighting. Granted the tournaments make it appear that way (grab -> go to ground -> submit), but there is a large variety of grappling techniques that can be applied while standing, not to mention if you get pinned to a wall/table/whatever. I do agree that groundfighting is should be avoided in a street fight if at all possible just because you never know who just might come up and kick you in the back of the head.

any kind of MA was not meant to look like the movies or to stand and wait for a punch or a kick to grap

That is the point of practice, so that you can seize the opportunities as they arise, same as striking. With striking you need to learn how to get around their defense and pick points that are open to your attacks and then strike them. With grappling, you need to be able to determine if you are most likely going to be able to get that grab and apply your technique. Different focal points, but both require practice, and neither one better than the other.

Something to keep in mind is that striking and grappling both require at least one of the same things, contact. You don't have to have super-human speed in order to get a hold of a hand/leg/arm/shirt/etc. Excluding grappling from your training is going to leave you with some severe holes in your defense.