Martial Arts Gathering 2007.

[Lau]

Eric,

Thank you very much for the Hakka tiger boxing clip. I really loved that and I am greatly impressed with his skills. The way the back leg is kept almost straight is something I find very important in the way I try to use power generation principles.

Regards, Lau

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Wu-ji / Lau

Thank you both….

Lau, couldn’t agree with you more. GM Lew got to be seen to be believed. His power, as far as I am concerned, is something you won’t expect for someone of his frame and size. Initially, I thought that I could take him with my speed since he appears “tighter” when he exerts. But was I surprised when I touch hands with him. He power is really “short” without much preparatory moves; something that I would normally associate with staying “loose” or “shong” like m White Crane. Because of this “shortness”, he was able to match me easy with the way he moves.

I suspect this has something to do with his basics in power generation. What you said kind of supports that belief.

Any chance of seeing how you do it? You are “Bak Mei” right?

Wu-ji, I will be traveling to Singkawang again one way or another. If you could just give me some leads…. The whole town speaks either Kek or Bahasa Indon; not really my strength hahaha…

Don’t know about the “kayu besi” or “belian” here in Sarawak but someone did tell me that you don’t want to take a hit from him and it doesn’t matter where.

Yes, most Ngo Chor here is from GM Kan line. The “White Crane” flavor is, like you say, very clear. I have even seen some forms that resemble some Fuzhou Cranes.

The frame is more or less Tai Chor and imho even their Lohan comes across as Tai Chor with many techniques appearing to have “Northern” origin.

Have you seen “Si Men” / “4th Door” or “Ngo kwan” / “5 stages” from Southern Tai Chor?

Looking at your form, I think you might find these 2 forms interesting.

Well, like I said I will be back in Singapore next week and one of my stops is my Tai Chor school where I hope to film some of my seniors and Sifu.

I will be posting from there once I got them down on video.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[leeky77]

Eric,
Seems like you have contacts from a lot of schools still teaching traditional kung fu. Just wanna ask whether you got any contacts around KL or Selangor area?
I am from Penang and learn some basic Hung Gar and Ermei from my sifu. But working in Selangor now so trying to find a real traditional school. My interest is only on traditional kung fu. But I found that most school now is teaching wushu for competition. Too bad I'm not staying in Sarawak. Hakka kung fu is my best choice.

[Firehawk4]

Have you herd of Shatung Black Tiger by Master Tjoa Khek Kiong ? He wrote a Book on Shantung Black Tiger with Don F.Draeger . The style said to be practiced in Indoneasia and Malaysia i am wondering about what forms it has . I also herd there was a Shantung Leopard style . And the History of Shantung Black Tiger ? Robert

[Hendrik]

classical YCBHQ's power generation, especially evident from this master's sin jun ka: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5MRWO9Pw6k . She is great, by the way. Please say my highest regard when you see her again.

She is Certainly excellent!

IMHO,
In the Yik Kam or Cho family WCK lineage, The type of power generation as She describe could be seen in the Jin Cheong or Arrow Palm set. also the Thousand or Cien which is one of the 13 hands...etc

The power generation of the Jin Cheong set included the Elbow Sinking, colabone area, the full body shock... so it is very very very White Crane. IMHO


Best Regards
Hendrik

[Hendrik]

Hendrik: in my humblest opinion, what she explained is what I understand as the essence of Wing Chun's Biu Jee (sp?) form.

I see WC using horizontal and vertical power generation like YCBHQ, but in a more compact framework. But you are the WC master and not me, I just see it from an outsider's perspective.

Wu Ji,


Indeed, you are right!



Could you please define the horizontal and vertical power generation? So we could compare note?

IN my lineage, Bian, whip, is horizontal type of power.



IMHO,
Yes, what she explain is an essence of WCK's power generation which is related to the White Crane's Inch power. This type of power generation DNA certainly is not the Hung Gar Iron Wire Type.

and, there is another component from the Emei 12 Zhuang which is softer and fine tune WCK ( using the medirians flow's path way for the fine tune. that make SLT unique )


However, What she explain is often in general lost in the present day of WCK due to the extreme of Fixing and pressing the elbow in the center line position. That damage the ability of these collar bone area type of power. not to mention the extreme of fixing the elbow into the center line cause the Yin medirians to be stagnated.


IMHO,
and it is a fact that the clasical set from the Red Boat Era, such as the old version of SLT, the set start with training the holizontal and vertical power. Now a day, for some lineage after the localization evolution, the section of holizontal power is retain in Biu Jee set but not explicit in the SLT/SNT set.

also Now a day these teaching are fade away, even in my own lineage these stuffs is fading. Now a day, some might still recite the old writing, such as whip out horizontal power but then the actual understanding is lost.

So, checking on the horizontal and vertical power while I was doing research into the root of WCK, are an essence indicator to know how old the set possible is.



Thanks

Best Regards
Hendrik



BTW.

Which part of Indo you from? I was from P.Siantar, left for decades.
Decade ago, my father generation, There were some White Craner in P.siantar. There is where I come to contact with White Crane basic ... Start with those Boo Ding Boo Bah Stance (not Ding shape not Eight stance)

But, the most well known White Craner is from BinJai. Dont know if they passed down their art and how they are doing.


I also have heard from the older generation that, in the 50's 60's my sukong Sek Ko Sam's students in Sumatra-ut area some times got into friendly competitions with the White Craners and whoever did wrong automatically knee infront of Damo image as soon as my sukong questioning their act.

Just some old stories in the Sum-ut area.

[Hendrik]

Hi Wuji,


"Horizontal/vertical" is a power generation with emphasis on sin jun ka, generating the power from the change of direction of ka in horizontal and or vertical axes. It is one of the ways of generating power. In my opinion, the nature of this kind of power is a "sharp" sensation, very effective for attack to head area and weak points.-------


Could you please translate Sin Jun Ka? Sin as body? Thanks.



Whipping is a different dimension. It is a soft-to-hard fajin that is good for penetrating strike. Hard-to-hard is good to block direct attack. Soft-to-soft is good for indirectly redirecting attack and also for grappling work. ------


Yup. Great view.



In my lineage's SLT, the first move is about " whipping arm whip out horizontal force Jing." So yes, it is not Lat (fujian force) but jing as written.





I believe that one inch power can be attained from many ways. Certainly, a very mature horizontal/vertical is one of them. -------


I see the one inch power have different types.
There is the one power with Sinking the elbow vertically with a shock drop (which I define it as vertical power) and there is the one power with the side chest/collar bone area with a shock trust (which I define it as horizontal power). And then there is the one which is power by the whole body by the tigh with a sharp body sinking and etc.






People often focus on styles in term of frames or forms. I believe that human body has only one head, one torso, 2 upper limbs and 2 lower limbs; they can only be moved in certain limited ways. -------

I agree with you to a large extend on this one.




Hence, what matters is the application of energy to generate power to attack and deflecting attacks. People can train in different forms, but I personally see that the applications of the frames are not that far from each other. A distinguishing quality that wins the fight for unarmed combat is often the quality of the power generation. I might be very biased, but a perfect defense prevents us from getting (much) injury. Yet, a strong attack is what is needed to finish a fight. ------


Yes, power generation is the number one essencial. how big the cannon one has make big different.

In fact, I am interested in doing power generation DNA research. I think that is meaningfull.

For example,
There are different definition of horizontal and vertical power. there is a saying that those untrain has vertical power and those who train has horizontal power...etc.


I grew up in Surakarta, Central Java. There is a strong influence of GM Liem Tjoei Kang and his successor GM Kwik Tjong Thay in this area (both happen to be my sukongs). At all given time, maybe each of them had had more than 3000 (revolving) students. Yet, very few finished their studies. My suhu, too, had had more than 1000 revolving students. Most of them have less than 2 years life-cycle. -----

Thanks for sharing.



My lesson started from classical ma bhe, but the serious lesson started with bu ding bu ba stance, which my suhu often just shorthanded it as pat kwa stance. This is the very basic of the fighting stance while the sam chien stance is the basic for power generation training. -------


Hahaha, we converge.

You see, in general today people didnt get past the sam chien stance understanding...




I heard from my suhu that before the 1965 G30S PKI, there were often friendly matches and demos. Many Hokjia masters with their excellent White Crane skills. Many decided to hide their skills afterward. Who knows if they ever pass their skills. What a grief loss. -------


1965 sep 30th is a day which changes the history forever. lots of sad and destruction....



Being a small city, my hometown also has a natural disadvantageous since most kids leave town for universities in big cities after they graduate from high school. So, naturally their training becomes interrupted, if not stopped at all. -------


Yup. Living condition has changes. Even when I was in Penang, condition changes and lesser and lesser trainers keep training.



I, personally, ended up in the U.S. and will reside permanently inhere because of my career.----------

Where do you live now? I am in San Jose Calif. May be we could meet some day.



Thanks for sharing.
Best Regards
Hendrik

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Writing this from Singapore; have I got my work cut out for the next couple of weeks…

I visited GM Lee Kam Yuen, the current leader of the Zhou Jia (Chow Gar) group in his school and discussed this September’s event.

I was delighted when he consented to send a group from his style and he even helped me to contact some of his friends in Hungga, Pak Hok and Choy Lee Fut.

Visiting this school is always special to me; besides the warm hospitality, Zhou Jia is one of the few schools left still maintaining the old ways.

Apart from the rooftop open-air school, this style still teaches the traditional manner; something that I don’t get to see much of these days.

And it is at this rooftop school that I sat through a training session conducted by a young Sifu, Royce Ang.

At 31, this Sifu has already got 18 years of Zhou Jia training and looking at his students perform later, I can picture how good he must be….

In the clip, you’ll see Sifu Ang in full black in the first 2 pictures.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Y8D7g67Ok

I got some Pak Hok videos with me but it will be another day or 2 before I post. This clips came from meeting with GM Mok of Singapore Pak Hok Pai.

Got meetings lined up all the way until Thursday before I travel to Penang, again to meet with Masters there….

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Ps. Notice that this thread is seeing some “deep” discussions; I will get more involved when I get back to Sarawak. At this time, I am moving and visiting and talking to Masters all over the place. Using an internet café to update…..

[TenTigers]

when I first saw the opening, I thought CLF, then it opened into Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen of Hung-Ga, although a different interpetation. Very dynamic, nice stances,very exciting to see. I would love to see some application drills. Where is this line from? Any time I see Malaysian lines of Hung Kuen, it is an eye opener.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Rik, Chow Gar/Choy Lee Fut and Hung Gar are VERY attached, at least in the Singapore context..

The form that you see in the clip is called “Fai Shou Hung Kuen” or “Fast Hands Hung Fists”…

Quick updates:-

 Besides the Chow Gar, I have also visited “Lama Pai Pak Hok” and spoke extensively about working together to try and revive traditional Kung Fu in this region. The support I am getting from GM Mok is really heartening. Coincidentally, they are planning their 60th anniversary celebration right about the same time I am doing the gathering so it’s going to take some fine tuning in scheduling for us to work. Still I was given videos, magazines and we even tape GM Mok talking about Pak Hok – priceless stuff..

 Hung Seng Koon Singapore. This has got to be one of the oldest kung fu establishments here in Singapore. GM Seah, the current leader, is a very vibrant person even in his advanced age. At one point during our tea session, he stood up and starting demonstrating the kwa, pow and charp choy from all the different Cantonese styles. This man’s kung fu knowledge is really unbelievable. Hung Seng Koon is sending representatives to the September event. And knowing that I will be in KL West Malaysia soon, he even gave me contacts of Choy Lee Fut there… Again I left Hong Seng Koon with a bunch of old videos, magazines and other materials.

 Tai Chor Singapore. It’s always a delight for me to visit my teacher, Sifu Teo Choon Teck and talk about old times. Sifu Teo or Ah Teck, as usual is all kung fu, nothing stops this man, I swear. He confirmed his participation and I got a lot of catching up to do when he visits Sarawak.

 Northern Shaolin (Master Sebastian Soh’s line). I met Paul Yeo, one of the custodians of Master Soh’s Lohan since his passing. It’s never good to know of someone passing so young and in Master Soh’s case, a personal friend, it’s even tougher. I said this before and I still maintain that Sebastian Soh is one of the best Lohan boxers of this generation. This man got to be seen to be believed; his speed, power and agility are really exceptional. Unfortunately I don’t have videos but Paul did give me some old pictures and these I will treasure… I am expecting Paul to be in Sarawak this September.

 Fuzhou Cranes – Ironically, my own clansmen are the toughest to deal with sometimes; maybe Fuzhou are weird… Met with my Sihing and its look like I got to pay him a few more visits to convince him. Or I should just tie him up and ship him to Sarawak this September….


Folks, I will be posting videos and pics from the Singapore trip to share, just need a little time to make this happen. Only got my laptop and digital camera with me and it’s not exactly easy to work on the road…..

Now, I need some Carlsbergs or Tigers (since this is Singapore and all…)

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Weito]

Dear readers,

Looking forward to meet you guys in Kuching. Behind the screens it is clear to me what this conference will be look alike. Personally I am looking forward to discuss with you all relations between Saam Tzien, Saam Bo Jin and Tit Sin Kuen. In this unqiue event you will be able to view and feel the play and differences. For me this is the only way to judge. Maybe on detail level there might be some little differences, but the roots are from the same family.

I would say, if you have the change to be there, take the opportunity. Hopefully we can met and share.

With some colleagues we are also going to discuss the rattail stick. Keywords, concepts and details. As we all know, the stick (tree) have a special place in Southern Chinese Martial Arts.

Eric, be sure that Carlsberg Kuching is provided well, when we all come over. It will cost you a fortune!

Warmest regards,

Evert.

[Gru Bianca]

Hey Eric,

you really are a busy man.... You must have forgotten my number
So you have spoken with Sibagong..... You should be there at their 60th anniversary, few people worth to see or meet ... then may be you can invite us to follow you to the wonderfull gathering you are organizing....

Be Well

Luca

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Evert, Carlsberg? No problem. What you really want is “tuak”, the local natives' brew..ask Sean (Iron Ox PM).

Gru, thought you left town. Yap, spoke to your SibaGong and your name came up a few times...looks like you are becoming quite a “favorite son” within Pak Hok. Anyway, will be making my way up to Penang (29th March) so... I will be back before September and I will call you this time.

Your SiGong, Chan Kok Wah, besides appearing in your Pak Hok videos (given by your SibaGong) also showed up in some Hung Sing Koon materials..

Spent last evening in Kong Chow Hui Koon for about 2 hours in the company of many Kong Chow seniors and 2 Sifu from Jin Moo.

2 hours of Kung Fu small talk and naturally the conversation steered towards histories and current state of traditional kung fu.

I was told that Kong Chow, now 160 plus years old had seen Masters from Hung Gar, Chow Gar, CLF and even Bak Pai teaching in their premises. The whole place is like a little kung fu museum with old photos, weapons and other paraphernalia...

I was having a ball just shooting everything...

Later Sifu Leong (Kong Chow) passed me a VCD containing their forms, 2 men drills etc....

The outcome of this meeting is that we will be seeing folks from Kong Chow and Jin Moo gracing the event in September.

Well folks, I will be posting clips from all the meetings that I've had and stuff culled from the various videos given to me.

Should have more time in Penang to do this...

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Gru Bianca]

Hey Erik,

Me leaving town??? Noooo,..not any soon I think, especially now that I bought my first house in here....
Glad to hear you gathered some material from my Sibagong, make good use of it. ..as for me becoming a "favorite son",..hummm....I don't really think so, I don't deserve it to be...I just like to give my respect to all my seniors,..I'm just one of the many

Next time you are planning to be back let me know in advance, send me a mail.

See you soon

Regards,

Luca

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Luca, you bought a house in Singapore? Good for you….just don’t you turn into a “kiasu” Singaporean; stay Italian …hahahaha….

Got another clip here to share – from Kong Chow Hui Koon’s archives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STI4U4M1vLs

Courtesy of Sifu Leong Kwok Khuen who not only shared plenty about KC’s history, he also bought the beers and barbecued pork.

Sifu Leong, Carlsbergs on me this September in Kuching Sarawak.

Warmest Regards.

Eric