Iron Shirt Qigong

[GeneChing]

The more I work with qigong masters, the more I realize the profound effect it can have on the ego. That being said, a lot of hard qigong can be demystified into gradual conditioning, and that's only really harmful if you try to rush things. If you're into pursuing something like Iron Shirt, please do. It's a traditional art that takes an intense amount of dedication, and because the commitment is so costly, few see it through. The best course is to research the methods so at the very least, you can tell a genuine master from a charlatan. As always, do your research. The more research you do in preparation, the greater chance that you'll be able to identify a good teacher. There are a lot of fakes.

The three main resources I'd recommend from our materials would be our Iron Body and Power Meditation DVD and our 2003 March/April hard qigong special issue. I also did an e-zine article that tackles this topic - see eXtreme Kungfu Qigong: Hard Qigong and Water Lei Tai Fights in China's Amazing New Tournament. Worthy of note, since I wrote that article, they've held at least two more qigong feat competitions. I just saw some footage of the 2nd one last week. Great stuff. They didn't do another water lei tai from what I saw but there was some other fascinating sparring games like plum-flower-pole push hands and plank push hands. We're debating about doing another video on it, but we have so many video projects in the queue right now.

[JDK]

You have described ONE method of Iron Shirt...purely physical.
This was addressed by another poster:

Iron Vest/Shirt/Jacket training has two schools of material. Those that use external methods, hitting the body with sticks, wire hitters, socks full of beans, rocks and steel shot. Little or no qi gong is used in this method. Basically building up the tolerance to accept pain and abuse.

My warning is in regards to the Internal Method...the method involving body, soul and spirit.

It really not even about my christian beliefs...it is more a warning ( from the sites I posted) about the possible dangers of delving into the unconcious mind and spirit world.

You ended by saying ,,,Chrisitianity, Kundalini, Yoga, Hindu, all of these are moot in point and fail to answer the question. Let's stay on topic.

I believe we are very much on topic .

JDK

JD

[Lamassu]

You have described ONE method of Iron Shirt...purely physical.
This was addressed by another poster:

Iron Vest/Shirt/Jacket training has two schools of material. Those that use external methods, hitting the body with sticks, wire hitters, socks full of beans, rocks and steel shot. Little or no qi gong is used in this method. Basically building up the tolerance to accept pain and abuse.

My warning is in regards to the Internal Method...the method involving body, soul and spirit.

It really not even about my christian beliefs...it is more a warning ( from the sites I posted) about the possible dangers of delving into the unconcious mind and spirit world.

You ended by saying ,,,Chrisitianity, Kundalini, Yoga, Hindu, all of these are moot in point and fail to answer the question. Let's stay on topic.

I believe we are very much on topic .

JDK

JD

No we're not! All your doing is doomsaying and preaching. The original post has nothing to do with religion. You are the one that brought it up, if you didn't then I'm sure it NEVER would have been included in the discussion. Posting sites that support your personal feelings about "spirituality" only further digressed from the issue. Do you know the specifics in qigong for iron shirt training? Have you ever tried it? Do you know what's supposed to be happening in your body when you do it? I don't, that's why I didn't comment about it. Who am I to tell someone to try or avoid something if I haven't done it myself? Who are you? If you don't want to practice anything "spiritual" then that's you own look out, but we're all big boys and girls on this forum and we can take care of ourselves, and we know what's best and what's not for us. If we wanted to discuss spiritual matters and debate over the particulars of religion, then we would be on a different forum. We're here to discuss martial arts, so let's stick to martial arts.

[Wong Ying Home]

As you openely admit yourself you have no formal traning or knoweldge of Iron shirt, or really internal martial arts for that matter.

You are taking the issue off topic by intertwining your own funadmentalist christian beliefs. You continue to quote snips and entire articles from people you probably do not even know, on a subject that you know nothing of.

You are of course quite welcome to your opinion and have your say as we thankfully live in a democratic world (most of the time).

Internal martial arts have nothing to do with the soul or spirit, they are simply a process of deep mechanical physical development, that allow the parasympathetic nervous system to work in ways that people are generally not in concious/thought control. It is very simply a case of mechincs.

the first neanderthal ran howling from fire untill he could create and control it himself. Torque thrust and compression are three of the main physical requiremnets for both internal and external kung fu, then alignment, speed and power. While rtaining a flexible and pliable body

If you are able to offer an objective point from physical and mental place of self knowledge and not simply quoting doctrine, then you have something of value to add to the discussion. If you don't know what your talking about then how can you offer an objectiove piece of advice.

You Can't !

[K.Brazier]

Hi All,
On qigung I wrote the following


'...you must push your qi to the back using both mind and muscle. The teacher strikes this area to make sure that the student does it correctly and to build the pressure of the qi. The actual posture aids the student in sending the qi to the correct location. You can discern this for yourself by mimicking the posture shown here with fully inflated lungs. With your mouth closed try to push air out of your kidney's. When done correctly you will feel an inflating sensation there.'

From this article

http://plumflowermantisboxing.com/Ar...#Master%20Luan

Kevin

[richard sloan]

hilarious.

on my best day, I could never come up with hooey of such quality.

[JDK]

As you openely admit yourself you have no formal traning or knoweldge of Iron shirt, or really internal martial arts for that matter.....
If you are able to offer an objective point from physical and mental place of self knowledge and not simply quoting doctrine, then you have something of value to add to the discussion. If you don't know what your talking about then how can you offer an objectiove piece of advice.

You Can't !

First of all...why are you so angry?
Can we not be civil ? My posts and replies are not angry...and yet you seem seeething with hostility....WHY?

When did I say I had no training of Iron Shirt or Internal Arts ???
I have had formal training from the late Master Ong, Sifu Tony Yang, and Sifu Shenk. I have been involved in practice of Hung-Gar/Shaolin type Martial Arts since 1980

I have also researched and practiced on my own the things I was taught by my teachers.

My Iron Palm training reached the point of being able to break 2 Bricks with a open hand slap.

Here is a good artcile ( tho lengthy) on WHY you cannot discuss Internal Martial Arts without acknowledging the Eastern Mystical connection.

For those who cannot take the time to read the following article..I ask a simple question Why? I am willing to bet most of you have spent hours reading material on the Martial Arts. Just a question for you to consider.

http://www.pastornet.net.au/response/articles/41.htm

[wiz cool c]

You have described ONE method of Iron Shirt...purely physical.
This was addressed by another poster:

Iron Vest/Shirt/Jacket training has two schools of material. Those that use external methods, hitting the body with sticks, wire hitters, socks full of beans, rocks and steel shot. Little or no qi gong is used in this method. Basically building up the tolerance to accept pain and abuse.

My warning is in regards to the Internal Method...the method involving body, soul and spirit.

It really not even about my christian beliefs...it is more a warning ( from the sites I posted) about the possible dangers of delving into the unconcious mind and spirit world.

You ended by saying ,,,Chrisitianity, Kundalini, Yoga, Hindu, all of these are moot in point and fail to answer the question. Let's stay on topic.

I believe we are very much on topic .

JDK

JD

Please just shut up. You sound like ****ing Hitler
Plese just shut up.

[Wong Ying Home]

My posts are far from seething or angry, I am not angry with you not in the slightest and certainly not hostile to you as a person

It is simply that you chose answer a question on iron shirt practice with a very length y cut and paste from another person writing, I think it woudl have had more value if you had condensed it, to your own words and had passed on you own experience of iron shirt chi gong.

With regard to a persons faith or beleif Gwok Si Gwok Faat Each to thier own, it is simply that at every opportunity you try very hard to interest us with your Christain point of view.

As a buddhist, I do not at every post and shout it to the world and say hey look at what thsi is...even if I believe it to be wonderfull and life enhancing, if I want to know about being a born again Christian I will certainly ask you for your knowledge and advice, however I would not like to have to read constant posting that forces it front of my face. Maybe that is why I object to your posts. I understand that you are passionate and feel you have found the chosen path and want others to have the opportunity but why not simply let us decide if we want your opinion on where religion fits in with Chinese martial arts

Temper your sword and wield it gently

[JDK]

Again I am forced to ask....WHY SUCH HOSTILITY and disrespect AND lack of manners.??
I dont get it. Are you saying its alright to believe and practice anything you want except Christianity ????

Hitler ??????

Your lack of control over your anger makes me sad that some of my former teachers and their Teachers were right...to develop Martial Skill without treating the person as a whole ( Body, Mind, Spirit) is doing them a disservice.

Personality changes and making the practioner a better person is the True way the Old Masters taught...and is why they didnt give out some of their most powerful teaching, formula's and training to any student they didnt have at least a 5-10 year relationship with.

Self control, serenity, and treating every human being with dignity and respect is part of the true essence of the Martial Arts.

Hopefully you at least ponder this post and do some self inventory,

I wish you the best

JDK

[JDK]

My posts are far from seething or angry, I am not angry with you not in the slightest and certainly not hostile to you as a person

It is simply that you chose answer a question on iron shirt practice with a very length y cut and paste from another person writing, I think it woudl have had more value if you had condensed it, to your own words and had passed on you own experience of iron shirt chi gong.

With regard to a persons faith or beleif Gwok Si Gwok Faat Each to thier own, it is simply that at every opportunity you try very hard to interest us with your Christain point of view.

As a buddhist, I do not at every post and shout it to the world and say hey look at what thsi is...even if I believe it to be wonderfull and life enhancing, if I want to know about being a born again Christian I will certainly ask you for your knowledge and advice, however I would not like to have to read constant posting that forces it front of my face. Maybe that is why I object to your posts. I understand that you are passionate and feel you have found the chosen path and want others to have the opportunity but why not simply let us decide if we want your opinion on where religion fits in with Chinese martial arts

Temper your sword and wield it gently

I suppose I misintepreted your response.
Please forgive me for jumping to conclusions. I guess I am a little gun shy..because very few replies to my post are not filled with insults, anger and disrespect.

The only reason I post belief in Jesus Christ..is because you cannot divorce True Internal Martial Arts from religions that are diametrically opposed to Christianity.

I will in the future true and show more respect for ALL beliefs on this website.

Peace

JDK

[Lamassu]

Hi All,
On qigung I wrote the following


'...you must push your qi to the back using both mind and muscle. The teacher strikes this area to make sure that the student does it correctly and to build the pressure of the qi. The actual posture aids the student in sending the qi to the correct location. You can discern this for yourself by mimicking the posture shown here with fully inflated lungs. With your mouth closed try to push air out of your kidney's. When done correctly you will feel an inflating sensation there.'

From this article

http://plumflowermantisboxing.com/Ar...#Master%20Luan

Kevin

This is interesting, it reminds me of San Njie as it was instructed to me at my kwoon (back in Texas). You're pretty much in a deep seated horse stance, both straightforward and also at a 45 degree angle, during the form. Throughout the form your taking 6-3-6 breaths and channeling the chi to your dan tien. While we practice the form our Sifu would "test" our posture by pushing, pulling and/or applying pressure. Anyway, when first learning San Njie I would feel drained and tired because I would exert too much external force to do the form, but with practice and focus on the dan tien, I would feel a warm sensation accumulate, and eventually push the chi back and forth my dan tien to my ming min and this would build up my chi some more. Now when I perform San Njie, I feel vitalized and full of energy. Yay qigong!!!!

[Wong Ying Home]

No worries,

You make an interesting point in that True internal martial arts cannot be seperated from Diametrically opposed religeous beleifs from Christianity.

How do you arrive at this conclusion

What are True Internal Martial arts

[Shaolinlueb]

jdk

i saw hitler in your post, wasnt he a christian?

SL

[Crushing Fist]

jdk

i saw hitler in your post, wasnt he a christian?

SL

Gott Mit Uns?