Iron Shirt Qigong

[QuaiJohnCain]

Lunghushan - have it done to you on video or STFU.

As Lamassu said, the burden of proof lies on you. Denying this only gleans your perverted and ill-informed rationale.

[lunghushan]

Lunghushan - have it done to you on video or STFU.

As Lamassu said, the burden of proof lies on you. Denying this only gleans your perverted and ill-informed rationale.

LOL Honestly I'm too lazy to even bother since I have 'no doubt' (sorry ... inside joke ... Gwen Stefani was just on T.V.) that you can accomplish this with basic ab muscles, having experimented before with it in my teens. As are you too lazy, or you would have tried it by now.

BTW HERE is a little article about a UNIVERSITY PHYSICS PROFESSOR who does the same thing I was talking about with the concrete blocks ... he uses breaking to demonstrate PHYSICS.

http://www.ps.uci.edu/physics/news4/rosendahl.html

Bottom line it's obvious who here failed physics, and I think you're pointing fingers in the wrong direction.

[Lamassu]

I read your article, unfortunately, it doesn't explain the physics behind such demonstrations. It's merely a news article mentioning how professors use demonstrations to catch their students attention. But this is beside the point, I can see how the force of the sledge hammer can be dispersed first through the concrete block and then the bed of nails the prof. is sanwiched in, but that's not what was demonstrated by the iron shirt video. Look at the video again, a sledgehammer is being swung directly into a man's chest! Are you telling us that sledgehammers don't hurt? That we can all buy sledgehammers run into the streets and start beating each other and no one will get hospitalized?! Now there's, a claim you should take to your precious million dollar challenge! Something, YOU need to realize is that in the iron shirt video, the guy isn't sanwiched between two beds of nails which act as a vehicle to disperse the wave energy of the force from the sledgehammer. Let's see this professor do this "circus trick" without the bed of nails and get up and start his lecture. Go back to school and retake your physics classes.

[QuaiJohnCain]

LOL Honestly I'm too lazy to even bother since I have 'no doubt' (sorry ... inside joke ... Gwen Stefani was just on T.V.) that you can accomplish this with basic ab muscles, having experimented before with it in my teens.

You fail to provide the evidence to prove your hypothesis. You cannot make your point based on the fallacies you have presented to us. You clearly do not understand logic, reasoning, scientific process, and thier relationship to debate. You cop out from providing the evidence, citing your own laziness, yet have no problem finding the time and energy to continue posting your ignorance.

As are you too lazy, or you would have tried it by now.

This comment reflects, one, that you have poor reading comprehension - I train with the man in the video I posted, and I mentioned that.... Two, your failure to comprehend logical process - you made statements that put the burden of proof on yourself, yet fail to provide the evidence, but demand that your point be taken as fact. That is called sophistry- a type of failure to comprehend logic. Three, in light of my first point in this paragraph, it is your own laziness that is bringing this argument to an impass. Pot-Kettle-Black, Mr. Hypocrite!

[lunghushan]

two beds of nails which act as a vehicle to disperse the wave energy of the force from the sledgehammer. Let's see this professor do this "circus trick" without the bed of nails and get up and start his lecture. Go back to school and retake your physics classes.

Actually, the reason he doesn't explain it is it's supposed to be understood by the physics students according to physics principles.

I give up on you guys.

Here's a little article.

http://www.csicop.org/si/9911/willey.html

Here's another one:

http://www.csicop.org/genx/firewalk/ (Fire walking).

This is the guy that set the world record for the longest fire walk.

http://www.pitt.edu/~dwilley/Fire/FireTxt/record.html

[Lamassu]

Of course, give up. You haven't disproved anything. What's proven though, is that Iron Shirt qigong is very real, and the Iron Shirt video is not a fake. Thank you for conceding.

[lunghushan]

I will concede that you're about as savvy at physics as the people in that movie Idiocracy. "because it has electrolytes." LOL (Okay, that was chemistry, but you don't seem to know anything more about physics than they do about chemistry).

[Lamassu]

*sigh*

I can see how the force of the sledge hammer can be dispersed first through the concrete block and then the bed of nails the prof. is sanwiched in, but that's not what was demonstrated by the iron shirt video. Look at the video again, a sledgehammer is being swung directly into a man's chest! Are you telling us that sledgehammers don't hurt? That we can all buy sledgehammers run into the streets and start beating each other and no one will get hospitalized?! Now there's, a claim you should take to your precious million dollar challenge!

you haven't seen the video have you? That much MUST be true, because you're avoiding all my points and merely regurgitating a physics demonstration that isn't like the iron shirt video. How many times do I have to say it? There are NO bed of nails in the demonstration to disperse the kinetic energy. I'm really getting tired of debating this with you when you completely go off kilter and bring up a completely different demonstration.

Okay, riddle me this Batman: What acts as a force of cushioning in the iron shirt video, to disperse the kinetic energy applied from the sledge hammer? Yes, I know you'll have to actually watch the video in order to answer this one, but go ahead, don't be afraid.

[lunghushan]

*sigh*



you haven't seen the video have you? That much MUST be true, because you're avoiding all my points and merely regurgitating a physics demonstration that isn't like the iron shirt video. How many times do I have to say it? There are NO bed of nails in the demonstration to disperse the kinetic energy. I'm really getting tired of debating this with you when you completely go off kilter and bring up a completely different demonstration.

Okay, riddle me this Batman: What acts as a force of cushioning in the iron shirt video, to disperse the kinetic energy applied from the sledge hammer? Yes, I know you'll have to actually watch the video in order to answer this one, but go ahead, don't be afraid.

The bed of nails is added to make the effect look better. It doesn't disperse the kinetic energy. The kinetic energy is absorbed through breaking the block.

In the iron shirt video, nothing disperses the kinetic energy. The kinetic energy is transferred into moving Shifu Patterson's body BACKWARDS. His mass is much greater than the sledge, so he doesn't have to move as far as it did.

You really need to go back and take physics again. These are like questions from high school physics.

[Lamassu]

So, what you're saying is sledgehammers can't damage the human body. Yeah sure swing a sledgehammer at somebody, and it may knock them back a little, but they don't have to worry about internal bleeding or fractured ribs. And anybody can do this, whether they study martial arts including iron shirt training for several years or if they're some soft flabby professor who hasn't done a single push up since high school. The "fact" that you claim physics prove, is that the human body can disperse kinetic energy from any otherwise damaging force. Talk about movie idiocracy.

[lunghushan]

So, what you're saying is sledgehammers can't damage the human body. Yeah sure swing a sledgehammer at somebody, and it may knock them back a little, but they don't have to worry about internal bleeding or fractured ribs. And anybody can do this, whether they study martial arts including iron shirt training for several years or if they're some soft flabby professor who hasn't done a single push up since high school. The "fact" that you claim physics prove, is that the human body can disperse kinetic energy from any otherwise damaging force. Talk about movie idiocracy.

No, I'm not saying that they don't damage the body. If you hit a hard surface with a sledge there's going to be a different result than if you hit muscles. Like if you hit somebody in the head, obviously there's going to be more damage than their stomach.

If you hit the stomach, if somebody is really flabby, a lot of the displacement from the impact is going into their fat. If they aren't really flabby but don't have any muscle strength, the impact is going into their body cavity, which could cause more damage.

There's going to be a different result if it is a horizontal impact like this where the body can move compared to a vertical impact or if the body is on a surface that's not going to give as easily.

[QuaiJohnCain]

Here is part of an article written by Patterson on the subject.....

I remember a time when upon leaving a demonstration at a Chinese Military base, a belligerent M.P. questioned validity of what we had demonstrated. He specifically taunted Master Hsu about the "Iron Body" demonstrations, saying that he did not believe that it was possible and casting aspersions or Chinese Kung Fu in general. Master Hsu dearly loved his Art and he could see the bully mentality in the M.P., so he casually invited the M.P. to strike the Black Belt of his choice as many times as he desired to quell his doubts. The M.P. chose Ah Huan, the smallest of us all (105 lbs.) My teacher, always the showman, did his best to egg the bully on, saying things like "Come on my grandma can hit harder than that." When the bully was sufficiently aroused and literally pounding on Ah Huan's body, Master Hsu gave Ah Huan the "High Sign" meaning to give the man "a lesson." On the next blow, the belligerent M.P. broke his wrist while punching Ah Huan in the stomach. As the M.P. knelt there on the road howling in despair, my teacher sidled up to him and said in a low, calm voice; "Now you believe, eh." Then he turned, as did we, and walked away.


from: http://www.hsing-i.com/hsing-i_journal/mymentor.html

[MonkeyKingUSA]

I watched the video several times. A close as the person with the sledgehammer is to the person being hit, it looks like the handle rather than the hammerhead is hitting the person. It also looks to me like the person is being hit below the ribcage. Thus, not in the chest.
Lunghushan is also correct when he says that the force is dissipated by the person's body moving backwards. Would this still hurt? Of course. Is serious injury still possible? Yes! Is this a circus type of trick? Yes, but that doesn't negate the fact that it takes some training to take that kind of a hit. So, I still find it impressive.
Demonstrations like the one depicted in the video are similar to those performed in China in the 1800s and 1900s by street performers. They are entertaining. However, being hit by a hard object when you are prepared and know its coming is very different from a strike received by "surprise" in a street fight. I think taking and "brushing off" a sucker punch to the body is more of a sign of iron shirt training than taking a prepared strike from a student. JMHO!
Though, if you want to see something really tough make the person taking the hit stand with his back against a block wall. THAT would be no trick and would possibly kill anyone attempting it.

[Baqualin]

I watched the video several times. A close as the person with the sledgehammer is to the person being hit, it looks like the handle rather than the hammerhead is hitting the person. It also looks to me like the person is being hit below the ribcage. Thus, not in the chest.
Lunghushan is also correct when he says that the force is dissipated by the person's body moving backwards. Would this still hurt? Of course. Is serious injury still possible? Yes! Is this a circus type of trick? Yes, but that doesn't negate the fact that it takes some training to take that kind of a hit. So, I still find it impressive.
If you want to see something really tough make the person taking the hit stand with his back against a block wall. THAT would be no trick and would possibly kill anyone attempting it.

I've been doing Iron Bone/Iron Shirt/Iron Palm training for a few years and we do these kinds of Demos at our tourneys......mostly for show....MKusa I agree with your view....Lung your right about the (simple) physics......and yes Sifu Patterson is the real deal......Iron Shirt is also for real and will protect you much better from hard blows than someone who doesn't practice it......but it will not make you super human......like MKusa....have him lay down on the ground and try the same demo.

Once again this is not a cut to Sifu Patterson.....he has much respect from me and you would have to train very long and hard to do that demo.

[lunghushan]

I've been doing Iron Bone/Iron Shirt/Iron Palm training for a few years and we do these kinds of Demos at our tourneys......mostly for show....MKusa I agree with your view....Lung your right about the (simple) physics......and yes Sifu Patterson is the real deal......Iron Shirt is also for real and will protect you much better from hard blows than someone who doesn't practice it......but it will not make you super human......like MKusa....have him lay down on the ground and try the same demo.

Once again this is not a cut to Sifu Patterson.....he has much respect from me and you would have to train very long and hard to do that demo.

Thanks -- I just don't want people to get the wrong idea and go running off and hurting themselves. Like thinking because their sifu does this horizontally that they could do it vertically or something. There were a lot of people during the Boxer Rebellion who thought they were tough and could stop bullets and stuff, and found out the hard way they couldn't.

Like I said, the person who first showed me incredible abdominal strength was a contractor friend of my grandfather's, who always used to say, "Here, punch me in the stomach." LOL He had abs of steel.