Christian Martial Arts Union

[Shaolin Wookie]

absolutely - so you get my point - that is, stnading on the street corner proclaiming anything is, in my perspective, silly - so when I see the Bible thumpers doing their morning rounds, or the militant Islamists doing their thing, I see it as silly as if I were to go door to door pushing non-belief...

I am very sorry. I completely misread what you had written. It could be read two ways.....and I picked the wrong one.

[mattb]

...so mu strong advice is to not get involved at all with these things we know little about.

Pretty much why I never got into religion.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I would exercise caution. This type of "Internal Training" is dangerous, directly associated with Eastern Mysticism and ..in my opinion from a christian point of veiw....to be avoided at all costs.
When in the realm of the spirit-world...one needs the protection of Jesus Christ and the power of His Blood , along with The Holy Spirit's Presence.

That's right. Jesus kicks ass. He's an ass-kicking machine. He kicks so much ass, that he actually lasted two rounds against Chuck Norris. No kiddin'.

As for the spirit-world....it's all a sham, my friend.

Unscrupulous Qigong teachers can be dangerous to your wealth, health, intellect and spirit.

Same could be said of Unscrupulous Christianity......rather, Christianity's inherent unscrupulousness......

Two examples of people donating large sums of money to organizations will be given. There are many other examples. The danger of these con men is their charm. They pretend to be your best friend, care about your welfare and "feel your pain". Many victims, even after they know that they have been taken, still adore these con artists.

Are we talking about the con-men, or Christianity here? I'm leaning towards the latter, which ironically encompasses both......and how much are we talking in donations. What? 15%?

[One well-known guru was driven around in a Rolls Royce. His followers donated money to him, while they lived in poverty in an ashram in Oregon. He did not impose a moral code on his followers and beatings were documented at the ashram. He died in prison.

I'd have beaten them too, if they were dumb enough to give me a Rolls, yet starve and live in poverty...plus I'd have slept with their pretty daughters on top of that, then slapped their wives.

[Another famous story involves a prisoner who practiced breath control. Without being detected he could cause pages of a book to move by blowing. He pretended to be a born again Christian and converted many inmates by causing the pages of a bible to move and attributing this to the Holy Spirit. After being released, he opened a Kung Fu school and had a large following because of his mystical powers. He became famous and was even invited to Egypt to treat Anwar Sadat. One wealthy man had donated large sums of money to this charlatan and began to spend hours meditating in his room. His sister became suspicious and hired Randi the magician to investigate this martial artist. One of his tricks was to cause a dollar bill under a fish tank to move by blowing in a small space between the tank and the table. Randi distracted him and turned the tank so there was no longer any space between the tank and the table. The Kung Fu artist could not make the dollar bill move. Randi made it move by blowing in the crack, which now faced him. The martial artist thought Randi was a Master and wanted to study with him. This con artist also persuaded some of his students to get guns for him. He was arrested and jailed on a weapons charge. He escaped from jail and still at large. This story appeared in a popular Kung Fu magazine. Even though this con artist had been exposed, it was hinted that some of his powers were real.

Kind of like raising people from the dead, walking on water, healing the blind and the lame, and moving boulders from graves? All you're saying is that your magic is stronger than his "real" sorcery.........think about it and you'll see it's true.......

The danger of belonging to such a cult is that it dulls the intellect. Some people become mindless robots and accept everything at face value instead of using logic, science or proper statistical methods. For example, a common claim is that a Master can cure any disease. This fact has never been verified.

Note the above on the disease thing. And I would caution you: The danger of belonging to a religion is that it is simply a cult that has gained majority status. If you don't believe this, read every Roman history in which Christianity makes an appearance.....note, especially Tacitus.....it's always described as a seditious, dangerous cult.....one that defied local Roman authority and refused to pay its taxes. How Unamerican........

[In spiritual Qigong most Masters warn their students not to use any esoteric powers that they gain - for example, don't spend time treating sick people. Some reasons given are that one can be injured by the evil that is causing the disease or that you really can't cure a sick person because it's his karma to be sick. Such advice will keep a disciple on the spiritual path, but is not conducive to the development of science.

Misinformation.........oh my "Please insert your local deity here"! You read these things with a Christian perspective, then transpose upon them your Christian "spirit-world" superstructure as if the world conformed to your warped-worldview. Oh my "Please insert your local deity here"!

[There are many example of Qigong masters in China and elsewhere who used fake photos, chemically treated paper which catches fire and other carnival tricks to impress their followers.

It was called the Cultural Revolution......and their tricks/spirit boxing, etc. aren't a part of kung-fu nowadays, and died with them. Extant Chinese MA don't contain these elements, and consider them illegitimate. But for hte carnival tricks....note my rebuttal two posts above, again. ...then add a little Moses....and Joshua....and Paul....and then add some water.

[[B][U]and excessive practice of Qigong and meditation can cause psychoses. Seizures can also result from improper or excessive practice of Qigong or meditation. These seizures become easier to induce with practice. Some Masters regard seizures as a form of religious ecstasy.

You can get siezures from patterns of flashing lights. Are there demons in photons, too? Christians believed seizures were the results of demonic possession. Your oversights are glaring and downright ridiculous......so much for "using logic, science or proper statistical methods...." NEXT!!!!:

[Improper practice or the wrong kind of Qigong can cause many physical problems such as hair loss, dizziness, headaches, nausea, difficult breathing, etc. Improper posture can cause chronic pain in any part of the body.

Oh, really? And will Christ fix my posture? I'm not sure where you're going with this.... I get those same problems when I go running, or when I practice kung-fu improperly. All it means is that I've done it wrong. Ain't no spirits, my friend.....

[For example certain forms of Qigong can increase one's appetite for food and/ or sex.

I agree. I'm a stud in the sack. Ask any of my girlfriends if you don't believe.

I regret defending you on any position you take.

You, my friend, are a psychonaut.

[lunghushan]

Let me just say that I disagree with JDK. You know, JDK, I deleted this before, but have you ever looked into the symbolism in your own religion? Christianity?

Take the 5 loaves and 2 fishes in the feeding of the 5000. (5 loaves ... put 5 loaves in a circle, draw lines, what do you have?) And the 2 fishes ... Ever seen a Yin-Yang symbol?

12 disciples. 12 tribes. Why do you suppose there are 12 disciples?

4 gospels. Why do you suppose they depict the 4 gospel disciples as beasts on the 4 corners in a lot of Christian art, such as illuminated manuscripts?

Or the fact that the first part of the Gospel of John is actually a quote from the Vedas.

Bottom line is like most Christians, you haven't bothered to look deeper into your religion. You take out the bits and pieces that suit you, and ignore the rest.

[Ben Gash]

David, you've made a glaring error in your previous post. The whole context of the discussion about the paying of taxes is that the Pharisees are trying to draw him into saying something that they could use to force the Romans to arrest him. The message of this piece isn't "don't rock the boat", it's that God is interested in the spiritual side of your life, He doesn't want your money. The important aspect of this message in JDK's case though is that Jesus declared that it wasn't sinful to pay taxes to Caesar, which many orthodox Jews felt it was.
The message is in NO WAY kowtow to Caesar because he can do you harm, indeed Caesar DID do vast amount of harm to early Christians BECAUSE of their refusal to kowtow to him and acknowledge him as godly (one of the cornerstones of the Roman empire).
Anyway, JDK, you are blatantly trolling. You came to the Southern forum, asking a seemingly sensible question and got some (you'll never get a sensible answer from Lunghushan) sensible answers (which you never responded to). Now you're here making inflammatory statements and casting aspersions.
I've trained in traditional martial arts for nearly half my life, and it is not providing a foothold for the enemy in my life. I am careful about where I train, true, but ultimately the devil is not going to take control of me because I train in martial arts, read Harry Potter or listen to rock music.
Anger, greed, lust, jealousy and pride are all much more real, pressing dangers than occasional exposure to a religion I don't believe in.

[kal]

ergo, anyone who trains an army cannot call themself christian even if they do call themself christian they are not and are heaping a lie upon another lie.

......

If you raise your hand to harm another human, even your enemyu, then you are not christian.

How about the soldiers that defeated Hitler and his allies? Were they un-Christian?

[Ben Gash]

A very common mistake. Pacisfism is not a tenet of Christianity (see the thread on this in the southern forum, as I don't want to have to write it all out again).
Now is being involved in a war a great strain on your faith? Absolutely. It's incredibly difficult not to hate the guy who's shooting at you, and psychologically it's pretty difficult to extend agape to the guy you're shooting at.

[Shaolin Wookie]

A very common mistake. Pacisfism is not a tenet of Christianity

Edit: it is a tenet. Is it practiced?


Not on this green earth.

[lunghushan]

(you'll never get a sensible answer from Lunghushan) sensible answers (which you never responded to).

Actually, Mr. Gash, I was the one who gave him the link to the Christian martial arts association.

Anyways, this is all a load of crap. JDK given what you've said, why would you even be on this board when obviously people on here are just the sort you don't want to hang with in the school?

You realize that, right? If CMA is evil then you are on an evil board of CMAists. And on a Sunday, no less.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Lung....your posts on JDK's issues are spot on. I've agreed with them to the letter in most cases.

I feel like we're bonding......hahahahaha

[Shaolin Wookie]

His sig is ****ing me off!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not Who's (not "whose")right, it's what's right!

Man, this dude is sooooooo wrong....and it's what's wrong!

[Shaolin Wookie]

Defense techniques should be done without vengeance or malice, but with firmness. Christians are not the soft "push-overs" the world depicts us to be. This is done through teaching the value of all human life to God and the great sacrifice He made for us. --from JDK's linked website....


I don't think anyone depicts them as "push-overs".

They terrorized Europe and massacred untold numbers of "heretics" and the like. Don't even get me started on "witch-hunts", the "crusades" (specially the Albigensian and 4th), or the "Inquisition".

Everyone knows not to mess with Christians. Just like people don't mess with the mafia.

[Shaolinlueb]

great just what we need. a bunch of born again christians who will now beat your ass if you dont go to their church.

i guess the days of calling the old man in a boyscout uniform a child molester when you leave their service is out of the question now.

[BlueTravesty]

JDK, I think I understand where you're coming from, but I don't know if I can be of any help. I am a Christian, but I was attending a school where we bowed both to our sifu and to a picture of the founder of our style (who died in 1962) had a fan with a Dragon, and a statuette of Guan Yu. I never thought to take issue to these things, much like I don't take issue to naming days of the week after pagan deities, or referring to months of the year after Roman Emperors. I'm not saying you're wrong for abstaining and taking offense to these things, I'm just saying I don't know how to help since it never occurred to me that they would harm me. Sifu never did any "spiritual" talk. He'd mention Chi every once in a while (as efficient biomechanics co-ordinated with breathing.) but never went into Buddhism or Taoism or Confucianism. Paul outlined similar issues ("ambiguous" issues among the believers, such as the eating of meat offered to idols, etc.) in his Epistles, most notably Romans and his response was essentially this: "If you feel it's wrong, but it's not forbidden by scripture, the it's wrong." Where the scriptures are silent, you must use your conscience. If you feel uncomfortable practicing Martial Arts in a secular or Eastern-Religious atmosphere, seek what you can practice in peace.

As for the whole violence thing- here's my stance. If someone came up to me on the street and hit me, my first response would be to find out why I was being hit- perhaps the fellow feels he has a valid grievance against me, and I would love to address that rather than have the fellow dig himself deeper by continuing to bear hatred toward me for whatever reason. If he was deranged I wouldn't hit him. I'd try not to get hit, but I wouldn't hit back- after all if he's in a state of dementia for whatever reason hitting him would do nothing but bring unnecessary harm. If the guy somehow knew I was a Christian and decided to hit me because of that, I wouldn't resist either (this happened to me when I was in 9th grade, at the hands of a random jock who caught sight of a WWJD bracelet that I had snapped onto my backpack.) In short, my first response would not be to bring my elbow down on the attacking arm, stomp kick the knee, and knock him to the ground.

Now if that random thug decided to attack my family or friends, I would do whatever is necessary to protect them without causing excessive harm to the assailant.

[lunghushan]

It must be a strange day or something, Shaolin Wookie.

Although, I always thought that when Jesus said turn the other cheek, he meant to moon the person (turn the butt cheek). Or maybe it was a reference to spanking ... do me like that. LOL

Anyways, whatever... we got a thread here of a guy who is promoting Christianity. We got a thread with a guy who seems to be promoting psychotic criminals.

LOL