martial law , this is america

[SanHeChuan]

Actually Becca is Right.

Only It was November 10 1775. However these first marines were Continental Marines, because if you look at the date there was no United States yet. They were disbanded in 1783, and reformed in 1798 as United States Marines for war with France which didn't turn into much of a conflict. They were reformed by President John Adams. The Barbary wars wasn't until 1801.

And saying someone is Brain washed for holding an opinion or belief contrary to yours is faulty. That's like saying that Christan's are Brain washed into believing in God, or that you are Brain washed into thinking that Kung fu has value.

[Mas Judt]

"I want my f*cking Country back."

What does this mean, and WHEN did you have it in the first place?

Just a question, as I'm not sure what people mean when they say this.

[Black Jack II]

No matter what the view point it seems that people may want to start looking at the inescapable truth that we might be getting ready for war with Iran at some point. A country which was always a much bigger threat than Iraq if they become a nuclear power. A nuclear Iran is something not many of a sound mind want to think about as there are not many sound minds sitting over in that neck of the woods to begin with.

Something short of military action may yet prevail on Iran. Perhaps sanctions will turn their leadership from its doomsday ambitions. Maybe Russia can somehow be persuaded to give them an incentive to think again. But we can’t count on this optimistic scenario anytime soon.

Just stating that the topic of Iraq may go with the way of the birds at some point.

[Mas Judt]

Ir reminds me of a quote by PJ O'Rourke:

"America is a great country. Wherever there is evil and tyranny in the world, we invade the country next door."

Unfortunately, we do face an actual, compelling threat. Unfortunately, the situation, as we are approaching both on right and left is truly Orwellian - the war on terror is a war without end - unless we do some truly horrible things to put an end to the hateful ideology that drives it.

Just remember, Nancy Pelosi voted to invade a country that never attacked us, and many other things that are frankly, just wrong. The right and left are the same in this regard, with the difference that the left seems uninterested in self-defence, while the right is willing to defend the U.S.

George Bush has done some great things domestically - the economic turnaround was remarkable. However, the Iraq war was certainly ill-advised, although I do not beleive it is unwinnable. We are in fact double-f@cked as just ducking out will leave s highly vulnerable against an emboldened enemy. Unfortunately, many Americans won't realize the extent of the threat until we lose a city.

And GB is sure to be the President to go down in history as the guy who surrendered the SouthWest to Mexico. (Although in the long run, economic merger between Canada, USA, and Mexico could be a very good thing for all involved. I enjoy Latin culture a great deal, so my only reservations are economic and policy based.)

[bodhitree]

The Iraq war was a horrible mistake, that had nothing to do with terrorism or 9/11. Many factors led up to the Iraq war, a struggle between the CIA and Pentagon (with **** Cheney and Don Rumsfeld on the Pentagon side), Oil, Sadam's terrible dictatorship (although I don't believe this was a crutial factor, just a selling point), revenge from the first gulf war, amoung others. THe war in Iraq has diminished our capabilities in Afghanistan, where Al Quieda was before the Iraq war (now it is much easier for Al Quieda to congrigate in Iraq due to the chaos, not like the days of Sadam's Iron rule) and has made the world less safe because the Taliban and Al Quieda have been allowed to regroup. Osama Bin Laden is probably in the Sudan or Pakistan by now.

Is the world more safe now than before the war? No. Ask any Iraqi. You may say "there hasn't been another terrorist attack since 9/11, well increased security measures have something to do with that, the removal of Sadam Husein on the other hand has less than nothing to do with that.


Oh, and weren't we supposed to find WEAPONS, where the hell are those? The gas he used on the Kurds he got from us during the 8 year war.

Support our troops, bring them our of harms way, especially for purposes that don't protect freedom, democracy, and safety.

Instead the Bush administration has them fighting for lies, curruption, chaos, in a poorly planed war with a poorly planned peace. The troops answered the call of duty, we must elect leaders who will make sure their call of duty is the wise, rightous, and necessary one.

[Chief Fox]

The left and the right aren't that much different.

They both have their agendas, many are in the pockets of big business. All are influenced by lobbyists.

Neither party is totally inocent.

I don't support GW but I don't hate him or think that he is evil.

I believe that he honestly thinks that he is doing the right thing.

I respect the fact that he is now taking credit for what ever happens in Iraq. He has no choice really seeing how Rumsfeld is gone. There's no one left to blame.

Does everyone remember the economy when Clinton was president. Now I don't want to get into a comparison flame war here but I believe that the economy was good because we had a democratic president that was forced to work with a republican senate and house. This created a balance and the country benefitted from it.

The past 6 years with republicans contolling both houses and the white house, hasn't been balanced. The system of checks and balances suffered, and A LOT of things happened that A LOT of people weren't happy about.

Now that we have a republican president and a democratic house and senate we can get back to a balanced state.

GW has an opportunity here to be remembered for something other than the war in Iraq.

The question is, will he "stay the course" or will he attempt to work with congress. For all our sakes, I hope he decides to work with congress. But I've got a gut feeling that he won't.

And yes, a war in Iran seams to be on the horizon. This, however, would be a somewhat legitimate war in my opinion and not a personal vendetta. I do hope that progress can be made with sanctions but it's not looking good.

Does anyone remember the joke of about a year ago or so. George Bush's new exit strategy from Iraq. Through Iran. Scary how right on this was.

[Chief Fox]

"I want my f*cking Country back."

What does this mean, and WHEN did you have it in the first place?

Just a question, as I'm not sure what people mean when they say this.

Well for the past 6 years a large percentage of the population has been made to feel like they were radical leftists.

If you go back to the Gore vs. Bush election. There is reason to believe that some shady deals went down with votes in Florida. Some people say that when all was said and done, Gore got more votes and GW was appointed president by the supreme court. Now that is water under the bridge so I don't want to argue about it. Probably one of the closest presidential races in american history.

Then of course there was 9/11. After 9/11 the country was never more united. We went to war in Afganistan then we were lead to war in Iraq under what a lot of people considered to be false pretences. Again, water under the bridge, I don't want to argue about this.

Then we had the Kerry vs. Bush election. And the country was divided again with another exteremly close election. The word on the street was morals and values are what won the deciding votes for Bush. Some would say, what morals, and what values?

Then there was Katrina. Where our governement was acused of knowing what was wrong and doing nothing about it. Then not responding in a timely fashion.

Now we are being asked to spend even more money on this war in Iraq. A war that many people feel is unjust and should be over by now. In addition to that, there is the ongoing threat of Iran and the potential for another war.

I've discussed with friends about how I am proud to be an American but I've lost faith in our leadership and at times I'm alomst ashamed. I feel like I'm being lied to and I just want some straight answers and I don't think we are getting them.

So I can completely understand why someone would say "I want my f*cking country back".

These are the words of a person that is fed up with their government and wants to feel proud to be an American again.

[SanHeChuan]

Whatever you may think about going to war in Iraq in the first place, doesn't matter now, it's done.

Those were the choices made, and now there are consequences. If we leave Iraq now we will be abandoning our responsibilities. We will be proving every naysayer right, everyone who wants to see us fail.

All I hear is "the price is too high." When what they are really thinking is "I don't want this constant reminder of a mistake."

Think really hard about what could happen in Iraq if we left, and maybe you'll stir up enough clarity to find a little truth. What are those consequences? When the bleeding hearts have saved the US Soldier where will the love for the Iraqi people be.

We can't win the War in Iraq! This is no longer a War against Iraq, but a War for Iraq. If we leave, Iraq loses, and ten years from now we will be right back where we started or worse. Who are we fighting in Iraq? Do you really know? And what do you think would happen if we stopped fighting them?

A new strategy great, but leaving should not be an option. Is this a war we can even win with guns? No, but one we would surely lose with out them.

A political with draw or not the US will have a physical force presence in Iraq for the next 50 years.

And I've almost stirred up enough senitment to turn around and go back to Iraq myself.

[bodhitree]

Think really hard about what could happen in Iraq if we left

There just might be a civil war or chaos

[SanHeChuan]

Until someone takes power. My money is on Iran, but maybe someone like bin ladin. And if there would be no diffence if we left why not see it through to a profitable end.

[Royal Dragon]

I have been wondering of late, maybe we are in Iraq, so we have an accessible front to Iran?

[SanHeChuan]

True Dat

[Black Jack II]

Regarding your main above post. Excellent man. Could not agree more.

[Becca]

you sure?

"There is no doubt Ellison was right about Jefferson believing wisdom could be "gleaned" from the Muslim Quran. At the time Jefferson owned the book, he needed to know everything possible about Muslims because he was about to advocate war against the Islamic "Barbary" states of Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Tripoli."

http://www.usvetdsp.com/jan07/jeff_quran.htm

http://virginiavirtucon.wordpress.co...son-and-islam/

And how does the song go? From the halls of montezuma to the shores of tripoli...

tripoli at the time was largely controlled by muslims. They pirated the waters during those times and extorted money from those who tried to travel them.

Posative... Unless you are assuming the second President formed the Continantal Army and Navy for that same reason, 20 something years before he was even president, as they were formed by the same action as the Marines.

1775 was the time our founding fathers were building up to the Revolution. "The Halls of Trippoli" was part of a war that came along about 25 years later.

[Becca]

Actually Becca is Right.

Only It was November 10 1775. However these first marines were Continental Marines, because if you look at the date there was no United States yet. They were disbanded in 1783, and reformed in 1798 as United States Marines for war with France which didn't turn into much of a conflict. They were reformed by President John Adams. The Barbary wars wasn't until 1801.

And saying someone is Brain washed for holding an opinion or belief contrary to yours is faulty. That's like saying that Christan's are Brain washed into believing in God, or that you are Brain washed into thinking that Kung fu has value.

Ok, I guess our resident Active Duty Marine jumped in before me on this. Thanks!