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Thread: Shaolin in America

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhangxihuan View Post
    i'm of the feeling if you can't speak some chinese well, then you should NOT be able to teach kung fu. I know that may sound "cruel" or "unusual" but I think to maintain cultural integrity a "white person" who wants to teach should at least know the language properly. I think its sad when people who know little about chinese culture or language run a school. Usually the school lacks discipline, and the teacher doesn't have respect either for the students or the art itself. Chinese is NOT hard to learn (at least basic pre-school level)... Its rather pathetic when a teacher can't even count properly in Chinese (as my first "sifu" butchered the language)...


    I think the whole "monk" thing is ok...just depends. I think if Americans have respect for the art they will respect their students and treat them as good as a foreign teacher would. The problem is many people lack basic respect. I'm not biased for or against "monks," since I dont personally know any. A lot of people say monks only train in wushu, or that wushu is crap, which is false by any standard. Many people who train in modern wushu also do traditional and know applications to the moves.

    Wearing orange uniforms is a bit odd, but if that is what the owner wants, thenthats that.

    I feel though that if you do not know basic Chinese history, language, or culture you should not be allowed to teach something as historically and cuturally important as Shaolin-kung fu.

    wow. lol. A punch in the Face and kick in the Crotch knows no language.

    How did the Chinese ever learn Buddhism? Did they have to all learn sanskrit? Pali? Hindi?

    I agree that if one is gonna make attempts at uttering in another language , then they should know it, but I also know first hand that language is no barrier to learning martial arts. You can get good training without ever speaking a word.

    As for monks...well, people gravitate to that, they wanna feel like they're somewhere doing something that fits their own preconception. Are they really for real? People still debate that. Is the training of any use? Sure it is, it is useful if that is what you want and that's all that matters isn't it?
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  2. #17
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    I find the suggestion ZangXe posed to be quite laughable.

    Did you know that many, if not most, monks can't read? And if they can, can only do so on an elementary level?

    Also, as an English student, tutor, and professor-in-training, I can tell you that the most "educated" are not necessarily the best teachers. You have to have the ability to relate something the student does not know to that student. I wouldn't reinforce Tolstoy with Isaac Berlin to someone new to Tolstoy. I'd relate Tolstoy to various movies the student might have reference to. Why reference something they don't know to something else they don't know?

    When I help show someone a high-block/clear, I tell them to wipe sweat off of their brow. It gives them a reference to a motion they know...gets them to rotate their forearm so that the top clears to the inside and the fist rotates out (most of us wipe sweat from our foreheads wit hthe tops of our forearms)........I don't stress the martial application until they get the wiping sweat motion.
    Last edited by Shaolin Wookie; 03-03-2007 at 06:56 AM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin Wookie View Post
    I'd relate Tolstoy to various movies the student might have reference to.
    War and Peace is like in every movie, tv show, cartoon, etc etc ever made. It's almost too easy to find Tolstoy references in the culturally iconic stuff of the west.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  4. #19
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    then again we are not talking about "monks" but AMERICAN teachers. So what monks can't speak English? they can speak Chinese.....

    true a kick or punch doesn't speak a language...but its pathetic to hear Chinese butchered so much as it is by "sifus" who are "white."

    I guess its because American students in general are LAZY and dont want to put time in to learn anything other than what is minimally required for a martial art. (true- I've seen this at several "schools").

    People who want to teach could at least listen to something as mundane as "Chinesepod" (which is free) to pronounce things correctly. Also how can one claim to have a full understanding of a culture or cultural martial art such as kung fu without a basic level in the language?

    I know there are some non-chinese teachers who know a great deal, but, something is lost.

    it would be the equivalent of attempting to learn to do Chinese calligraphy without knowing Chinese. sure you can write the character, you might be able to tell me what it means, or it may look good, but if you can't tell me the cultural context something about it will diminish along the way.....that is my point..

  5. #20
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    while it is true that one cannot claim tio have experience and knowledge unless they actually have experience and knowledge, you tend to mix taht idea with general racist undertones.

    ultimately, people aren't going to see your point, they will only see your racist remarks and it's on that which you will be judged.

    when the only medium you have is the written word, such as here, you have to choose carefully what it is you are going to say if you want to say something that is gonna be taken seriously.

    what about black people who use sun toys and wear court robes? how about native americans who do the same? and so on? why are "whites" the problem to you? How about indonesians who do japanese karate and call it shaolin? is that a problem?

    see what I'm sayin?
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    How about indonesians who do japanese karate and call it shaolin? is that a problem?
    DJ, you slippery tongued devil......

  7. #22
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    Look, Zhangxi......people in America don't even speak in the same vernacular. I moved from Detroit to Atlanta in '94......and I didn't understand at least 25 words and phrases tossed out regularly by locals (even other migrants). "My bad..." wasn't in northern use at the time, "fixin'" had me stumped.......things change with geographic shifts. It's not a bad thing. It's just different.

    BTW, I'm white, and I don't speak chinese. I plan on learning it soon, and I butcher it when I speak it. I try.....

    Really, though....languages describe things. What's more important? The language or the thing it describes?

  8. #23
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    well I am WHITE... does than answer your question? and I can speak CHINESE.

  9. #24
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    Many of us speak other languages as well. I speak four. The head of my system speaks something like 7.

    I could probably speak to an ancient roman better than you (very useful, I know ).......it's not integral to studying classics and ancient history, but it can be nice, at times. Although, I do think many English translations are far better than the originals.....

  10. #25
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    well, to clear things up a little.....the USA is not a land that is exclusively english as its language. The melting pot of the world is versed in all different kinds of languages. If you come down to Houston and tour its china town, you will see street signs in english and written in chinese....even in some parts of downtown Houston.

    I can remember when the first shaolin school hosted by two monks opened its doors in Houston. Niether spoke the english language. Grant it the student base of the shaolin schools are mainly chinese but as a "white" person in a chinese school it was interesting. Years later the monks learned english and we began studying chinese/mandarin. The point is language is not the issue. The issue is how bad you want to learn and how bad do you want it. Language is just another hurdle in the road.

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