shuai-jiao vrs striker vid

[Black Jack II]

Not sure of the guy in blacks system. But he is a striker that much is obvious.

The shaui-jiao cat is ripping up on the striker but what are the rules for this match. It looks to be from the 1970's.

Is this some form of tricked up one-sparring format but with full contact throws?

Why no prolonged standup contact once in the clinch?

Why no grappling once on the ground?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuTS2QWWrR4

[YouKnowWho]

The guy in black was a Bagua guy from Korea. No head contact in that tournament. 3 seconds clinching rule was applied. If you cannot throw your opponent in 3 seconds then the referee will stop the fight and start all over again. No ground fight in 70th. I don't believe the word BJJ or MMA were even exist back in the 70th.

The same tournament after that year did allow head contact. There were 17 guys sent to hostiple in that tournament. During the 3rd and 4th place fight, most of the fighters gave up because it was not worthy to get hurt just for 3rd or 4th places trophies.

[Black Jack II]

Well, with those rules, it's not hard to see why the more wrestling based style had a even more severe advantage.

Thanks for the info.

[SifuAbel]

In a way you are right. People in the early UFCs couldn't seem to shake their own sport rule paradigm.

The boxer waited for a clinch separation that never came. etc etc

[YouKnowWho]

At 2.54 the guy in yellow had a "head lock" on the guy in black when he thrown him. They both went don to the ground. If you were the guy in black and your head got locked by your opponent, how will you be able to apply your "ground fight" skill if the guy in yellow didn't release his "head lock"?

Should you get a lock and then go down to the ground, or go down to the ground and then look for a lock. Which method will be to your advantage?

[Knifefighter]

I don't believe the word BJJ or MMA were even exist back in the 70th.

LOL... BJJ and MMA have been going on in Brazil since the 40's.

[Black Jack II]

There was MMA in the 70's. It was just a whole heck of a lot more underground.

Vale Tudo was one such venue or Japenese shootfighting. Hell, you can go back even ****her to 1887 when the legendary John L. Sullivan fought greco-roman wrestlers in the ring for bragging rights.

[Black Jack II]

The old guy on the right with the wicked handlebar mustach was doing MMA before the Vale Tudo was ever born. It was a common thing in the late 19th century to see bare knuckle boxers vrs savate, vrs greco, vrs even some traditional jujitsu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIfcYJpUig0

[Knifefighter]

At 2.54 the guy in yellow had a "head lock" on the guy in black when he thrown him. They both went don to the ground. If you were the guy in black and your head got locked by your opponent, how will you be able to apply your "ground fight" skill if the guy in yellow didn't release his "head lock"?

Considering that a headlock is a very precarious "control" position and one of the first things a clueless person will do when going to the ground, it is one of the first counters taught BJJ. Pretty simple thing to escape for someone with about a month of BJJ training.

Should you get a lock and then go down to the ground, or go down to the ground and then look for a lock. Which method will be to your advantage?

Obviously, if one could get a lock standing and take it to the ground, that would be the ideal. However, since in about 99 out of 100 cases it is impossible to do this against a halfway athletic or skilled opponent, it must be done on the ground where there are more control options.

[YouKnowWho]

Considering that a headlock is a very precarious "control" position and one of the first thing a clueless person will do, it is one of the first counters taught BJJ. Pretty simple thing to escape for someone with about a month of BJJ training.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Obviously, if one could get a lock standing and take it to the ground, that would be the ideal. However, since in about 99 out of 100 cases it is impossible to do this against a halfway athletic or skilled opponent, it must be done on the ground where there is more control.

LOL..... Is that the way you understand the "head lock"?

No wonder you have no respect for CMA.

[tjmitch]

1- :27 both end up on the ground

2 - :50 clinch broken up - looked like they both would have went down

3 - 1:01 - ill advised jump kick leads to throw- still standing

4 - 1:26 - stays up ( mostly )

5 - 1:46 both end up on the ground

6 - 2:22 - stays standing. ( nice one )

7 - 2:54 - both end up on ground

8 - 3:43 both end up on ground

9 - 5:15 - both on ground, but not engaged, so I will say this one doesn't count either way.



So out of 9 throws, 4 end up with them both on the ground, 1 clinch got broken up but it looked like they both were going down, 2 'clean' throws, 2 where he kind of stayed standing, but not really.



If I am the thrower..... of course I would like to stay standing, or if not land on top of my opponent ( hopefully with my full weight ) or as pointed out by you know who, already with him in some sort of lock.

But if I am the throwee, I would hate to realize at that point I had no idea what to do. Throw me with a head lock and when we hit the ground I know EXACTLY how to get out of it, and how to submit you from the escape. And it isnt from kung fu. It is BJJ 101.

[Knifefighter]

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Really? Why is that?

LOL..... Is that the way you understand the "head lock"?

Huh?
Was your original question about a headlock like was shown on that video, or were you talking about joint locks such as knee bars or heel hooks?

[Knifefighter]

So out of 9 throws, 4 end up with them both on the ground, 1 clinch got broken up but it looked like they both were going down, 2 'clean' throws, 2 where he kind of stayed standing, but not really..

Yeah, and that was even against a pure striker who had no clue about defending throws.

[tjmitch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDWVDQfybgw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9eUwEumi7c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6r1jy1rb60


Vale tudo - 1975. Complete no rules, including face raking, hair pulling and finger twisting. I didnt see any biting, but I think if you wanted to you could.

[tjmitch]

And a headlock escape.