what exactly is the difference btwn internal and external?

[Aeturnal]

im trying to understand exactly what the difference is btwn an internal and external style in CMA's. I did start this off in another forum about asking whether mantis was internal or external or both. im just having trouble grasping the concept how learning taijijuan as a fighting style would be different then something like wing chun, mantis, choy li fut etc. any answers are appreciated

[Michael Dasargo]

Aeturnal

Internal is commonly associated with soft, passive-aggressive movements.

External is commonly associated with brute, assertive-aggressive type movements.

However, an External emphasis also refers to how something looks, while an Internal emphasis also refers to how something feels and functions.

What your thinking of as Nei Jia (Tai Chi, Xingyi, Bagua etc) are systems that are predominately composed of passive-aggressive principles giving a soft and slow look to the practice (generally speaking). This appearance is due to the fine tuning of body mechanics, angle stepping, etc.

However, the person playing it may only understand the look of the movements (an external expression), rather than the feel and function (an internal expression).

Likewise, a Muay Thai fighter may emphasize a passive-aggressive defense and focus on spiraling the spine to produce power, thus making such an expression of Muay Thai " soft" and "internal" in principle.

Internal and External is a matter of principle emphasis, and is not exclusive to individual systems.

Tai Chi, Xingyi, and Bagua fighters that I know do heavy bag and focus mitt work, while karate guys I know practice slow to refine the kinetics of individual techniques.

Mantis is balanced. The internal and external emphasis is matter of how you wish to train.

Hope it helps,
M.Dasargo

[Aeturnal]

hey that actually does help a bit, thank you

[scholar]

I agree with the above that all martial arts have internal and external aspects, just different emphases on their order of training. We all have opinions, though, and you are going to get as many different answers as there are schools on this one.

Your best bet is to find a teacher who can clearly, physically, demonstrate the difference. If the teacher can't consistently demonstrate an obvious difference, then they can't teach neijia and is likely to be representing a kung fu cult. So, words aren't enough to convey this, you have to be able to see and feel the actual quantitative difference between neijia and waijia.

[qiphlow]

only that one starts with "in" and the other starts with "ex". they're both "ternal"

[mixjourneyman]

internal: has internal force.

How to get internal force?: focus on small movements and body mechanics.

Some people get good and call it jing, qi, shen.
Other people call it precise control over ones body.

Both are equally internal.

I will also agree that a lot of so called external arts have internal mechanics in them.

Internal martial arts require a lot of inner work on both the body and the mind.

Hope that clarifies a bit and adds another dimension to the conversation.