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Nice example of a pre-emptive cradle blow. You can tell the officer is comfortable with using his hands. Notice the slight blading of the perp and aggressive stare...dude had it coming.
It has a couple of nice slow-mo's in the end to see it in full.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Uy59WK0bU
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That's one of those things they don't allow in MMA.Originally Posted by Black Jack II
I don't know about 'aggressive stare' of the perp ... he wasn't acting like he was going to attack or anything, although he did have his hands in his pockets so that is bad if you're a cop because you don't know what he's got in his hands.
If anything, the perp looked like he was kindof out of it.
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I think it was a nice shot, but I also think he could have covered the perp's arm as he came in though.
In most Shaolin styles, the arm not in use covers the heart. It gets instinctual. The motion for that would have put his left hand in a position to controll the perp's arm, and help keep it in his pocket at the same time he hit his throat.
As it was, he didn't gain controll until after he would have been stabbed.
Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.
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Well, the cop's been through a lot of incidents so guess he went with his experience.
The guy was obviously drunk or something because he didn't react until he was on the ground.
But if he hadn't have been drunk and had a knife or gun in one of his pockets it could have been a very messy situation. Of course if he pulled a gun before the cop reacted, it could also be a messy situation.
Banned
Then I suggest you sharpen up on your awareness skills. There are visual cues of aggression in that setting which are pretty aparent. Clenched jaw,the unblinking "thousand yard" stare, tense shoulders, a rocking posture that started to slightly blade before the cop lanuched the craddle strike, hostile microexpressions when spoken to, ignoring the repeated de-escalation attempts of the cop which only added to the threating demeanor.I don't know about 'aggressive stare' of the perp ... he wasn't acting like he was going to attack or anything,
I have no doubt that guy may of been intoxicated to some degree. Its Las Vegas so that is without a doubt. But you can tell that guy may of been ready to throw down.
What does this have to do with anything?That's one of those things they don't allow in MMA.
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Dude, I've been on the street plenty of times ... I've had to deal with this kind of guy plenty of times. It's obvious that he's drunk and stupid.
But I'm not going to launch into somebody like that with his hands in his pockets from the front because you don't know what he has in his pockets. You notice he gets one hand out and onto the cop's arm that's clenching him. If he had a knife in that hand, it would have been a bad situation.
The thing about not doing it in MMA is just that the MMA types are always saying what they do is the best and so great, so I was just pointing out that MMA doesn't allow a throat grab or strike like that. I doubt MMA trains for that or how to counter that.
Bottom line is cop had two choices here. A) Attack B) Back off and draw a gun. Obviously he went with his experience and attacked which turned out to be the correct choice. I don't think I'd do the same thing but he has more experience.
Last edited by lunghushan; 02-05-2007 at 10:43 AM.
Banned
It was more of a lunging craddle blow. Not shot up close like some teach it in a class. Kinda like a wwf full on choke slam. Since it was done at more of a medium range distance you only see him tag the right arm after the full impact.I think it was a nice shot, but I also think he could have covered the perp's arm as he came in though.
Instead of using a limb immob on the right arm, it looked like he relied on the pre-emptive measure with a lot of forward drive to take that out of the consideration.
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Look close at the vid again, had the perp been armed, he charged right into a knife in the gutt. If he had used his left arm to cover, similar to the way Shaolin guys do, then he could have controlled the perps elbow, keeping the perp's hand in the pocket, or away fomr stabbing him as he went in to the cradle strike.
Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.
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He did have the timing right on, though. He attacked him right when the perp was changing his attention from the camera back to him, before the guy really had time to figure out what he was going to do.
From the way that Sifu Abel was talking it seemed like he would be a guy like this cop ... fast badass attack guy ... unfortunately probably not.
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.Dude, I've been on the street plenty of times ... I've had to deal with this kind of guy plenty of times. It's obvious that he's drunk and stupid
Sorry, but due to past posts I am not buying it. Not saying your a bad guy just that I don't get this vibe, bro.
Disagree. When a suspect is sitting there ignoring the cops commands with his hands in his pocket and with the aggressive body langauge displayed it is apparent he fits into the threat category.I don't know about 'aggressive stare' of the perp ... he wasn't acting like he was going to attack or anything,
I agree here. I just would of OC'ed his a$$. But since the cop was there only he knows what other visual cues gave him the urge to go to his hands.But I'm not going to launch into somebody like that with his hands in his pockets from the front because you don't know what he has in his pockets
Royal,
If the knife was pre-deployed or the officer screwed up on the entry that could be a possibility. But I am pointing out that the knife was not pre-deployed and that he used the element of suprise against a intoxicated attacker to make up for the more close quarter use you see in that blow, which includes checking the arm most close to you, actually if you look at it, its more of a throat hold than a y-strike and he does tap the arm on the way down.Look close at the vid again, had the perp been armed, he charged right into a knife in the gutt.
I train in fma and silat, so yeah, I understand the blade arts. In kali its sometimes refered to as the crimson line or the golden center. But that is not the point, its not really about what works better, just that this worked using a different element.If he had used his left arm to cover, similar to the way Shaolin guys do, then he could have controlled the perps elbow, keeping the perp's hand in the pocket, or away fomr stabbing him as he went in to the cradle strike.
Last edited by Black Jack II; 02-05-2007 at 11:11 AM.
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You can do that in just about any MMA event.
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Sweet!
That was a great setup.
The key to that whole takedown was the perfect setup.
The guy wouldn't have been able to deploy a blade. He was too distracted by the setup.
A perfect example of using the OODA loop to one's advantage.
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??? Thought they didn't allow any strikes to the throat or throat grabs. ???
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Black jack
Look at the vid again, his hand comes out of his pocket, and goes right into his gut. If he had been concealing a small open folder (Like my Gerber Gatormate), he would have stabbed the cop on accident even. His stabb went DIRECT for it's mark. The cop did not gain any measure of controll of that arm, untill after that fact.
Actually, the way he was standing, and the way he was posturing I'd bet he DID have the knife, and the cop DID get stabbed. It's just the video stopped before he was able to inspect himself, so we as the viewer did not see it.
Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.
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Whatever. I used to work in Brooklyn and spent plenty of years tromping all over Manhattan and some time in the Bronx. This guy was starting to plot his next move, not getting ready to attack anybody. That's why it was such perfect timing.
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