WHF Drunken Sets

[bungbukuen]

There was a thread going on in another forum about whether Seven Star Mantis had the Drunken sets or not.

Most 7* family lineages do not have these sets. The reason being they were introduced and passed on by Master WHF.

Regarding Zhai Yao there have always been six sets in the 7* side. From the LGY side, Mei Hua Lu, MH Quan and MH Shou have never been considered part of the Zhai Yao sets. Too much over analyzing and not enough training!

Hope it helps.

BBK

[Redfish]

I agree with BBK.

It's common knowledge in HK that the Drunken Luohan was from the WHF school. Master Tse Wing Ming was talking to us about that when he brought up the old WHF birthday event videos to Shanghai. Also Master Kai Uwe Pel explained it to us from his time with LKW and CCM.

WHF's books mean that Zui Luo Han, and more, can be learned by anyone. This also might explain some of the big differences between different performers.

Also, any masters from Hong Kong who were involved in the Jing Wu scene could have learned it directly, like Chiu Leun, for example. But not everyone will include it in a Mantis syllabus.

Lots of masters know lots of forms. CCM was also skilled in Eagle Claw and Tan Tui. But Zui Luo Han was not part of FXD/LGY's Mantis syllabus.

[MantisCool]

If we read the book, 100 years discourse... by Wong Hun Chiu it is clearly stated that LGY's students performed drunken sets a few times during the time LGY was in Shanghai.

There were details of events given so there should not be doubts that it is not created by WHF.

Regards
khoo

[Redfish]

Khoo

We have not said that the form was created by WHF only that he introduced it into a Mantis school's syllabus.

As I said, it could have been learned by anyone involved in Jing Wu at the time, including the Shanghai Jing Wu.

Many Mantis schools play Gong Li Quan, for example, but it's not part of the FXD/LGY Mantis system.

Does this make sense?

Sorry if I can't express my views clearly here.

[Redfish]

Khoo,

One more thing. Does the Wong Kam Hoong school play it?

[MantisCool]

Hi! Redfish

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I didnt mean anything. Just to make known what I have read.

Actually, it is in Hongkong that some sets were demonstrated and not in Shanghai (wonder whether there is or not?). The book says when LGY was in HongKong in the earlier period the set Drunken Liu Tong was always performed by 崔壽亭 (Cui Shou Ting) and WHF would perform the Drunken Lohan. This means LGY are the one introducing these sets and not WHF. I dont know whether LGY created it or absorbed from others and also dont know whether WHF created the other sets or absorbed from others. The book also mentioned that LGY has high praise on Cui Shou Ting performing that set. (That set has left and right hurricane kicks and left right sweeping kicks). You should know as you have seen the VCD of the Anniversary.

It is true that a lot of forms are learnt in Jing Wu from visiting grandmasters.

From what I know, we have the Drunken Lohan, Drunken Sabre and Drunken Step Mantis but I havent learnt them yet.

Now, the Wong Kam Hoong school has the Drunken Southern Lion! They won the 3rd place recently in the Lion Dance competition.

Regards
khoo

�

[Redfish]

Thanks Khoo

All the drunken sets that are mentioned in the other thread were available to be learned in the Jing Wu Schools.

Of course, the origin is not clear. Perhaps from Mi Zhong Yi or Er Lang men (North Shaolin Kung Fu). Maybe someone can help us on that point?

Redfish.

[B.Tunks]

RF,

Not from Er Lang in Hebei or Shandong (as far as I know)

bt

[MantisCool]

I think these drunken sets are not introduced from other schools because I have not seen any set from other schools same as this yet.

I have seen a drunken set from fellow Jing Wuer but different. I dont know the name.

regards
khoo

[mickey]

Greetings,

Wasn't WHF good friends with Lau Fat Man of Eagle Claw? I ask because the drunken forms appeared to have been a real interest of Lau Fat Man. Is it possible that he passed on some drunken forms he created to WHF out of friendship?


mickey

[ChangHFY]

Hey Mickey,

thanks for the post, I was just about to state that it seems that the Drunken Luohan form from Qi Xing Tang Lang and Ying Jow Pai have considerable similarities Ive seen both performed, and theres not too many differences in the form and function. (atleast from my limited knowledge)

It seems logical that they may have shared knowledge with each other.

Another student of Wong Han Fun named Chung Ho Yin learned the Qi Xing Tang Lang from Wong Han Fun as well as Ying Jow Pai from Lau Fat Mang.

This is an interesting topic, sorry I couldnt add more.


take care,
Zach

[LawClansman]

As mentioned eariler,
the Joy LoHan was well known in the 30's and onward. It has a difinate similar style to the Ying Jow Pai drunken set minus the more acrobatic movements (backflip etc.), However, Chiu Chi man did learn from Lau Fat Man and was in the Jing Mo years before mantis was introduced, so he would have lerned at least a drunken set already. It is later students of Chiu Chi Man that had not seen him doing drunken sets so they say he didn't teach them . When he was younger and able to do so he did teach them. This is how Chiu Leun was able to learn drunken sets from Chiu Chi Man and later students did not.

Chiu Leun also learned drunken sets from the Yip Ming Duk Temple monks while in China. From this combination of sources we now have several drunken sets in our cirriculum. This includes drunken hand, Gim, Dahn dao, Gwon, Dwun Cherng and others. The Joy Bo Tong Long is completely different from the Joy LoHan. It is a complicated mantis set which involves the drunken steps. The Joy Lohan is not exactly the same as the WHF version. There are more hand techniques but is is clear it is the same form.

As I have mentioned some time ago, the drunken sets are good for academic study and demonstrations. Theye are not what I percieve to be superior sets to any other. They are advenced sets though and are great for exercise, timing and balance. But the practical side is questionable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3_b9SUDQ-8

These people are not masters of drunken technique, however, they believed the drunken tech would make up for their shortcomings. Eveyone wants to learn some superior technique. There are none. You cannot escape hard work and taking bumps and bruises if you want to be good.

[MantisCool]

From what I heard, drunken sets were introduced by Wang Rong Sheng (Sifu of Fan Yew Thong), i.e. LGY's sigung.

Before Wang Rong Sheng learnt Mantis from Lee San Jian, he already had 2 sifus. One taught him Long Fist and the other Ditang Gong (ground). Drunken forms involve a lot of ground movement so it is believed that this is where the Ditang Gong training came in.

Regards
khoo

[Qixing Tanglang]

Great information and perspective Sifu Albright. Also gives more probable insight into WHF. The video was funny.

Thats interesting MantisCool, but it would also mean that the drunken sets (or at least variations) should also exist in the family lines of LGYs kung fu brothers. But they do not.

Wang Han Xun wrote an article in a Hong Kong wushu magazine a long time back. He said that he learned the drunken forms in Guangzhou. Sorry the name of the magazine fails me now. The date was 1957/8. Maybe some of our friends in HK can help out on this.

Cheers,
Nathan

[shirkers1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN-2fmbQNa0

In case some of you haven't seen it.