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Thread: about Bruce Lee

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunghushan View Post
    The issue is: Was he as great of a martial artist as the hype says he was.

    To determine that, we would need some evidence of actual fights, or his performance in actual fights.

    I've read his book and it's primarily about his experiences SPARRING.

    So is there any evidence that he's a great fighter? I'm waiting.
    Who are you, and why would we want to or have to prove anything about Bruce Lee's fighting abilities to you?

    Either you believe he could fight or not based on what is available today as evidence (video's, personal recollections, books, personal journals by Bruce). I could care less what you believe about his abilities, as I have my own thoughts based on what I have seen. IMO he could fight at a high level. He was not unbeatable for sure as his chin could be taken into consideration and his back injury too, but to exploit those weakness would not be easy to do. Do you think you would have been up to it lunghushan?

    James

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg View Post
    lung your just cant admit the truth .to caught up in your own head ..and your closed minded
    What truth? SHOW ME SOME EVIDENCE. You probably think that Jet Li is a great fighter too. At least he was a WUSHU CHAMPION ... he's a forms king. Admit it -- Bruce Lee was an actor and a dancer.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sihing View Post
    Who are you, and why would we want to or have to prove anything about Bruce Lee's fighting abilities to you?

    Either you believe he could fight or not based on what is available today as evidence (video's, personal recollections, books, personal journals by Bruce). I could care less what you believe about his abilities, as I have my own thoughts based on what I have seen. IMO he could fight at a high level. He was not unbeatable for sure as his chin could be taken into consideration and his back injury too, but to exploit those weakness would not be easy to do. Do you think you would have been up to it lunghushan?

    James
    Me? I'm a nobody on a forum.

    Honestly? Do I think he could fight? I have no idea. I never met the guy. I'm looking for any evidence he was a great fighter and so far I have found NONE.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunghushan View Post
    Me? I'm a nobody on a forum.

    Honestly? Do I think he could fight? I have no idea. I never met the guy. I'm looking for any evidence he was a great fighter and so far I have found NONE.
    The next best thing to do is to go study with one of his students. If the student is good, just imagine how good the teacher is??

    If your looking for proof, go find out for yourself, first hand. Inosanto is still around, he's the most popular and recognized as one of his best students. Challenge him and find out. You up for it lunghushan??


    J

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sihing View Post
    The next best thing to do is to go study with one of his students. If the student is good, just imagine how good the teacher is??

    If your looking for proof, go find out for yourself, first hand. Inosanto is still around, he's the most popular and recognized as one of his best students. Challenge him and find out. You up for it lunghushan??


    J
    Inosanto's studied lots of stuff ... we're talking about BRUCE LEE here, not one of his students. We're not talking about ME either, we're talking about BRUCE LEE.

    Was he any good? Who knows.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunghushan View Post
    Inosanto's studied lots of stuff ... we're talking about BRUCE LEE here, not one of his students. We're not talking about ME either, we're talking about BRUCE LEE.

    Was he any good? Who knows.
    Who knows, definetly not you bro..LOL

    Like I said, your measure of proof is not attainable. You can't fight the man, he's dead, so how exactly do you expect to find proof? Go research for yourself if you are so interested in finding out. Read what others have said, spend time with people that have trained with the man and make up your mind (opps I forgot, you already have.. ).

    Bruce Lee is definetly the person most responsible for the progression and inspiration of others in their pursuit of MA excellence over the last 30yrs. He was definetly high level in fighting skills, you can see it in his movements, read it in his books written in his own words, and from the recollections of people that knew him best. Unfortunately this is the only way to know for sure of his abilities. There were no venue's available for him to prove his abilities while he was alive, but regardless sporting competitions are not that be all and end all of proving true fighting skills due to the fact that there are rules and regulations involved with these events.

    The key is not to ask for proof, but to investigate for yourself, make your own decisions and go from there. Really and truly asking people that never knew him is ridiculous, go seek those that knew him the best to really find out.

    J

  7. #37
    There's LOADS of evidence...eye witness accounts from people who either sparred him or saw his sparring sessions and/or his numerous streetfights.

    Go back and do the research before you decide to diss the guy....like all the TONS of magazine articles that appeared back in the 70's/80's quoting people (ie.- other martial artists) who were witnesses (ie.- during the filming of Enter The Dragon he was being challenged virtually every day by somebody)....or any of the numerous documentaries made about him wherein people were giving eyewitness accounts....

    but if you're going to come back with the knee-jerk "oh these were just his friends/students hyping him" routine...

    then I can't waste my time continuing this conversation.

    And then there's something else...If you don't come away from watching his 5 movies with the distinct impression that here was a guy who could REALLY fight (even with allowing for all the high kicks, spinning kicks, etc.)...


    then you don't know jack about what real fighting is all about.

    Even take a look at the T.V. show episode wherein he taught a blind man to fight - and watch the fight that the man he teaches puts up at the end of the story....and you SHOULD know that Bruce Lee was the real deal.

    Get a clue.
    Last edited by Ultimatewingchun; 02-09-2007 at 09:08 PM.

  8. #38
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    I stand corrected. I was never a big Chuck Norris fan so I'm not real familiar with his fight record. Seems he never went beyond point fighting. Joe Lewis did, however, go on to full contact kickboxing.
    When seconds count the cops are only minutes away!

    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Sorry, sometimes I forget you guys have that special secret internal sauce where people throw themselves and you don't have to do anything except collect tuition.

  9. #39
    this is as laughable as it is tragic. sometimes earth worms crawl out of their mossy lair to preach a sermon on man. i say earth worms go back home, let the foibles of man not concern you, for man's prowess is out of your clammy reach.

    over and over again i have heard a variety of martial artists criticise Bruce Lee. I find it both repugnant and repulsive. funnily enough, it is the more capable martial artists who show deep respect for the accomplishments of Lee. many cite him as the reason they first forayed into Gung Fu in the first place. it is, however, those insecure worms that tend to be the most disrespectful.

    had it not been for Bruce Lee, this forum would not be what it is, Wing Chun would not have been as established as it has become, we would likely heard little of great men such as Wong Shun Leung, Ip Man and Jesse Glover. There would never have been an Enter the Dragon which incidentally continues to be voted the greatest martial arts film of all time. we would not have an Inosanto, Ted Wong or Mike Lee. he destroyed racist stereotypes that prevailed in the media during his lifetime. he was well read, his library housing a range of topis from martial arts to the poetry of Rumi.

    to be honest, i dont care if the man fought publicly. however, i am led to believe that he was an incredibly explosive man. he had an abundance of fast twitch fiber. this is apparent in the footage readily available on e.g. Youtube.

    an original Bruce Lee student said that people were only able to hit Lee if he let them. he was just too quick. the same student was also present when Lee fought a Karate man in a streetfight (circa 1959). the fight lasted 11 seconds. guess who won.

    what next... Was Mother Theresa a virtuous person?

    Go train.
    Last edited by Wu Wei Wu; 02-09-2007 at 10:00 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wei Wu View Post
    this is as laughable as it is tragic. sometimes earth worms crawl out of their mossy lair to preach a sermon on man. i say earth worms go back home, let the foibles of man not concern you, for man's prowess is out of your clammy reach.

    over and over again i have heard a variety of martial artists criticise Bruce Lee. I find it both repugnant and repulsive. funnily enough, it is the more capable martial artists who show deep respect for the accomplishments of Lee. many cite him as the reason they first forayed into Gung Fu in the first place. it is, however, those insecure worms that tend to be the most disrespectful.

    had it not been for Bruce Lee, this forum would not be what it is, Wing Chun would not have been as established as it has become, we would likely heard little of great men such as Wong Shun Leung, Ip Man and Jesse Glover. There would never have been an Enter the Dragon which incidentally continues to be voted the greatest martial arts film of all time. we would not have an Inosanto, Ted Wong or Mike Lee. he destroyed racist stereotypes that prevailed in the media during his lifetime.

    to be honest, i dont care if the man fought publicly. however, i am led to believe that he was an incredibly explosive man. he had an abundance of fast twitch fiber. this is apparent in the footage readily available on e.g. Youtube.

    an original Bruce Lee student said that people were only able to hit Lee if he let them. he was just too quick. the same student was also present when Lee fought a Karate man in a streetfight (circa 1959). the fight lasted 11 seconds. guess who won.

    what next... Was Mother Theresa a virtuous person?

    Go train.
    Hey Man, if you don't have a signed contract with Spike TV, UFC, K1, then you are not considered a real fighter in today's media world. All those before don't mean sh!t compared to todays Giant warriors with gloves and ref's and rules, and cut men et al et al....

    What I find the funniest is when you compare men that train full time to those that don't. Really the comparison is to take those that are the champs of today, make them live regular lives with 8hr a day jobs and family responsiblilites/stresses, then go to training and do it all over again, 5 days a week, and then see where they are at (also you have to take away all their specialized training and help with the best of the best concerning nutritionalists, traininers, specialized Martial Arts coaches, and people taking care of the everyday things for them..). Put most average MA in an environment like that, with proper insentive and you will always come out with a better conditioned, comp. fighter. You have to relate it all to the environment one is in, can't compare apples to oranges.

    J

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wei Wu View Post
    this is as laughable as it is tragic. sometimes earth worms crawl out of their mossy lair to preach a sermon on man. i say earth worms go back home, let the foibles of man not concern you, for man's prowess is out of your clammy reach.

    over and over again i have heard a variety of martial artists criticise Bruce Lee. I find it both repugnant and repulsive. funnily enough, it is the more capable martial artists who show deep respect for the accomplishments of Lee. many cite him as the reason they first forayed into Gung Fu in the first place. it is, however, those insecure worms that tend to be the most disrespectful.

    had it not been for Bruce Lee, this forum would not be what it is, Wing Chun would not have been as established as it has become, we would likely heard little of great men such as Wong Shun Leung, Ip Man and Jesse Glover. There would never have been an Enter the Dragon which incidentally continues to be voted the greatest martial arts film of all time. we would not have an Inosanto, Ted Wong or Mike Lee. he destroyed racist stereotypes that prevailed in the media during his lifetime. he was well read, his library housing a range of topis from martial arts to the poetry of Rumi.

    to be honest, i dont care if the man fought publicly. however, i am led to believe that he was an incredibly explosive man. he had an abundance of fast twitch fiber. this is apparent in the footage readily available on e.g. Youtube.

    an original Bruce Lee student said that people were only able to hit Lee if he let them. he was just too quick. the same student was also present when Lee fought a Karate man in a streetfight (circa 1959). the fight lasted 11 seconds. guess who won.

    what next... Was Mother Theresa a virtuous person?

    Go train.
    Well said. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see from the mass collection of real life clips and full movies around that B.Lee was a master, one of a kind. People like LungHushan are a reminder to me that there are plenty of shallow minded people in the MA world just like any other place. Lung would just be another non-believer that would be humbled by Lee if he were still alive and then offer to carry Lee's bags wherever he went after getting schooled.

    How someone becomes so narrow-minded and negative concerning someone who has done so much for MA like Lee did, I do not know.

    -respectz.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunghushan View Post
    Yeah, he wrote a book about how styles sucked and then filled the book about how he fought and what worked. Creating his own style.

    LOL LOL LOL
    .
    Dude....I understand the difference between fiction and reality...but Bruce was a beast. His muscles were not cosmetic. (He was soooo toned, it was almost kind of gross). His cardio was so strong, he was basically indefatiguable.

    As for JKD--it's not a style.

    It's more of a philsophy. It's the credo for MMA....take what works. He did shut down his schools b/c people started to treat it like a style. I admire him for his dedication to his philsophy...and even follow it. But I don't study boxing,fencing, etc......I study what I think is good for me.

    With his speed, strength, and cardio, and dedication to MA, I have no doubt he could whip up on guys like Chuck (who's pretty badass in his own right, only he catches flack b/c his movies weren't any good [MIA....that one with the asthmatic kid who has rampant Chuck Norris fantasies...just sick ).

    He was an innovator and an MA. He also made some sweet flicks. But he couldn't have made the flicks if he wasn't pretty badass first. We're talking about MA cinema without wirework and CG, and ballet-wushu.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wei Wu View Post

    had it not been for Bruce Lee, this forum would not be what it is, Wing Chun would not have been as established as it has become, we would likely heard little of great men such as Wong Shun Leung, Ip Man and Jesse Glover. There would never have been an Enter the Dragon which incidentally continues to be voted the greatest martial arts film of all time. we would not have an Inosanto, Ted Wong or Mike Lee. he destroyed racist stereotypes that prevailed in the media during his lifetime. he was well read, his library housing a range of topis from martial arts to the poetry of Rumi.
    Excellent post. Should be a thread killer.

    If only he hadn't died so young.......

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wei Wu View Post
    this is as laughable as it is tragic. sometimes earth worms crawl out of their mossy lair to preach a sermon on man. i say earth worms go back home, let the foibles of man not concern you, for man's prowess is out of your clammy reach.

    over and over again i have heard a variety of martial artists criticise Bruce Lee. I find it both repugnant and repulsive. funnily enough, it is the more capable martial artists who show deep respect for the accomplishments of Lee. many cite him as the reason they first forayed into Gung Fu in the first place. it is, however, those insecure worms that tend to be the most disrespectful.

    had it not been for Bruce Lee, this forum would not be what it is, Wing Chun would not have been as established as it has become, we would likely heard little of great men such as Wong Shun Leung, Ip Man and Jesse Glover. There would never have been an Enter the Dragon which incidentally continues to be voted the greatest martial arts film of all time. we would not have an Inosanto, Ted Wong or Mike Lee. he destroyed racist stereotypes that prevailed in the media during his lifetime. he was well read, his library housing a range of topis from martial arts to the poetry of Rumi.

    to be honest, i dont care if the man fought publicly. however, i am led to believe that he was an incredibly explosive man. he had an abundance of fast twitch fiber. this is apparent in the footage readily available on e.g. Youtube.

    an original Bruce Lee student said that people were only able to hit Lee if he let them. he was just too quick. the same student was also present when Lee fought a Karate man in a streetfight (circa 1959). the fight lasted 11 seconds. guess who won.

    what next... Was Mother Theresa a virtuous person?

    Go train.
    I'm glad that my first post on this forum gets to be a 'nod' to this statement. I dont know why people get so hooked up on the issue of 'how good was Bruce Lee?' From what I've heard the man himself was under no illusions about his skills and deferred to Wong Shun Leung but so what...? Just because he couldn't leap tall buildings in a single bound and wasn't faster than a speeding bullet that doesn't take away from his significance as an individual for all the reasons Wu Wei Wu highlights.

    To me, the subject of this thread is akin to asking whether or not Huo Yuan Jia lives up to his legend? During his lifetime other legends like Cheng Tinghua and Yang Banhou were all in their prime and other great fighters of the generation prior like Guo Yunshen were still around. Could Huo Yuan Jia have beaten them all? There's a Chinese dictum that in the south there is Wong Fei Hung and in the north there is Huo Yuan Jia. Does the yellow faced tiger deserve this acclaim though? Was he truly the greatest fighter north of the Yangtze during his lifetime? Really is it that important?

    Whats true about Huo Yuan Jia is that he had proven fight skills and that he started an important movement of public teaching of Chinese Martial arts. Likewise Bruce Lee. Leave it at that.

  15. #45
    By all accounts, Lee was amazingly fast. Was he a great fighter? He probably was better than a lot of martial artists of his time, but more than likely, not as good as athletes like boxers and wrestlers (Judoka/wrestler Gene Lebell easily handled him when they mixed it up) who were regularly going full force and competing against other equally skilled and conditioned opponents.

    Lots of karate guys were impressed with him, but you have to remember, they were all doing point fighting at that time and this was probably the first time they were exposed first-hand to someone whose idea of training was to work in a more "live" type of context and actually do some hard sparring (and, even then, their sparring was not usually as hard as what most boxers would do on a regular basis).

    Additionally, lots of people who trained with Lee "played his game". That is, a lot of his teaching involved working with Wing Chun's chi sao drills. Lee was a master at these types of drills and could easily outclass and awe his training partners, although it really wasn't any type of measure of real fighting ability. Much of what Lee was able to do to impress people didn't have a whole lot to do with fighting another skilled fighter (i.e. one-inch punch, snappy high kicks, chi sao, one finger push-ups, ripped physique).
    Last edited by Knifefighter; 02-10-2007 at 12:08 PM.

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