Banned
And here's what I find hilarious about this thread...all the Bruce Lee naysayers here wouldn't have lasted more than 60 seconds with the guy.
Who's kidding who around here?!
I think I'll check out some other threads - this one is really getting old....
and dumb.
Glorified TCMAist
I don't understand how one can decide fighting in a ring, or professionally as being the only thing that determines if one is a "fighter". I know of many TCMA throughout history as well as famous Karateka, or even Miyamoto Musashi for that matter, that never fought in "recognized" organized fights, as you put it. I know countless guys on the street who are fighters, and never entered any type of venue, other than a barroom, or back alley.
So what if Lee never fought in a tournament? He fought. Period. He is recognized by those who have far more knowledge and experience than probably anyone here. That's enough for me.If that's not enough for you, well then I guess that's your problem. If you wanna go on and on speculating about something you know nothing about, we may as well change this to a Batman vs Spiderman debate.
It's just as stupid.
BTW, this isn't directed to anyone in particular, it's directed at everyone.
Glorified TCMAist
btw-Spidey, hands down, if anyone's interested.
Registered User
Paleez! We all know that Batman would eventually prove the victor because of his wits.Originally Posted by TenTigers
I don't understand how one can decide fighting in a ring, or professionally as being the only thing that determines if one is a "fighter". I know of many TCMA throughout history as well as famous Karateka, or even Miyamoto Musashi for that matter, that never fought in "recognized" organized fights, as you put it. I know countless guys on the street who are fighters, and never entered any type of venue, other than a barroom, or back alley.
So what if Lee never fought in a tournament? He fought. Period. He is recognized by those who have far more knowledge and experience than probably anyone here. That's enough for me.If that's not enough for you, well then I guess that's your problem. If you wanna go on and on speculating about something you know nothing about, we may as well change this to a Batman vs Spiderman debate.
It's just as stupid.
BTW, this isn't directed to anyone in particular, it's directed at everyone.
but seriously, I do agree with this post. However, I'm sure you have also heard the stories of Bruce losing to guys who didn't fight in the ring. I'm not saying that to demean him. I'm just saying he was a human being.
Glorified TCMAist
I agree. A fight is a fight. Most times,it can be any man's day.
Registered User
Actually, he did fight. I've seen some old footage of his training and a couple of his rooftop fights. He was pretty dominating against the guys he fought in that footage, but they weren't exactly world beaters.
I think he was a probably quite a good stand-up fighter, but probably not the undefeatable bad@$$ that those who have only seen his movies and demonstrations think that he was.
Last edited by Knifefighter; 02-12-2007 at 09:22 PM.
Registered User
The question should be could Bruce fight, if he choose to? Yes IMO. Regarding Elite level athlete's and such, Elite is Elite, whether or not you are competiting is besides the point (especially in his time period). Also, Bruce was not a "Professional" athlete, meaning he did not make his living competiting, so therefore he was not able to spend countless hours physically or mentally honing his abilities (although I do believe he did make use of his time very well regarding his Martial Arts training). He did have other things in his life and other things he strived for. Fame was one of them, and he did have an ego for sure, plus a family to support while being a struggling Asian actor in a business where acotrs of that nationality where in little need.
Too put it simply, he wasn't perfect, wasn't unbeatable, wasn't the god like figure most think of when you say his name, but he was unique, and very gifted as he did mold himself into what he became. What ever path he choose to go down, Actor or Fighter or whatever, he would have succeeded, no doubt.
James
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Registered User
What brings people to their highest levels is competing against others at equally high levels.
Glorified TCMAist
I would agree qith KF, but competing isn't always in a ring, with a ref and trunks,gi, or speedos. Many TCMA "competed" in public as well as personal, non-public gong-sao, some friendly, some not so friendly. My Sifu has always maintained that if you don't touch and compare with other high skilled players, you will never achieve the highest levels. This still goes on today.
Unregistered User
basically what it seems to come down to is this:
There are haters, and there are obsessors....
but in between all those people, the rest of us know bruce lee was a real guy, with a real body, and a real mind.
he was very gifted, talented, and goal orriented. he worked very hard to accomplish everything that he did. did he have an ego? yes. but well, the guy was very successfull, and a large portion of the fuel for that success was his VERY well known ego, which allowed him the utter confidence to walk his path as he chose. we could all be so lucky
he deserves respect as an artist, human being, and as martial artist, as does each and everyone.
he was, to say the least, a dragon.
R.I.P.
who cares who he could and could not beat.
A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
~Sima Qian
Master pain, or pain will master you.
~PangQuan
"Just do your practice. Who cares if someone else's practice is not traditional, or even fake? What does that have to do with you?"
~Gene "The Crotch Master" Ching
You know you want to click me!!
Registered User
It seems Bruce Lee has become a divisive issue. Haters and Obsessors are a good way of describing what it mostly comes down to lately. I think both sides take it too far. I see him as a skilled martial artist with great charisma who made some cool movies and had strong points and flaws. Bruce was not perfect like the obsessors would claim, but he isn’t the utter chump that the haters would have you think he is.
Last edited by The Xia; 02-13-2007 at 12:18 PM.
Unregistered User
you and i stand on the same ground
A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
~Sima Qian
Master pain, or pain will master you.
~PangQuan
"Just do your practice. Who cares if someone else's practice is not traditional, or even fake? What does that have to do with you?"
~Gene "The Crotch Master" Ching
You know you want to click me!!
Registered User
He focused most of his energies on becoming a famous movie star. He was 130 lbs with extremely limited knowledge of grappling and groundfighting. I'm sure there are a lot of naysayers of today who could have easily "lasted more than 60 seconds with the guy."
Registered User
Hello..
Hello all..
I must apologize for intruding here.. as I don't claim myself to be a martial artist at all.. used to practice 18 years ago.. no belts.. never fought at any competition.. and got detached somehow.. shame on me..
But after reading some of the posts I desired to share my views to you all and may be if anyone respond to this post then that may allow me to learn something new adding some value in my life.. so please advise on the following:
- Is martial art for fighting in competition or at streets or roof tops or for practicing as an art.. is it for having recognition in the society as a champion or a street fighter or improving oneself on different aspects of body, mind, life and sharing experiences with others and helping others making improvements..
- Is there a new form of martial art named Jeet Kune Do.. if so then who presented this form of martial art to the world.. and how many of those elite level fighters referred at different postings who won competitions could present how many new forms of martial art to the world.. could anyone present anything newer after JKD.. how much knowledge, time, effort, skill, etc. do you think is needed to develop and present a new form of martial art..
- Can anyone identify drawbacks of JKD form of martial arts sighting specific comparisons with other similar forms..
Here are some of my views..
- To be a true martial artist one need not participate in any competition but practice and practice and practice.. which can even be with ones own shadow and not with another live partner..
- To achieve highest level of skill, power, etc. one need not participate in any competition but push and push and push oneself beyond the limits that one has achieved in the past and there could be a lot of people around all of us who may have achieved much better skills than most of the people talking or referred to here but don't feel the necessity to prove that to others..
- To evaluate someone in true sense one need to have better knowledge, skills, etc. from that someone.. and unless that someone is tested by the one how can one come to some real conclusion on specific issues like whether that one was skillful or powerful enough or not..
- Those who can not offer something new to the world and just follow some path shown by others do not have the capability to evaluate those who offered new things..
- If someone is not really something then why so many people are trying to prove that he is/was not really something.. isn't it better not to talk than talking about nothing..
Here are some of my opinions..
- I have seen some of the UFC programs that some claimed as world class fighting or fighters.. the fights or skills shown in all those that I have watched in TV are not good by any standard.. and the fighters there looks more like a bunch of kids trying to win some trophy by any means than a true martial artist.. interestingly enough some of them did not even pass some of the fitness tests.. demonstrated very ill behavior.. I can't understand how some of you called these people elite fighters.. but if this is the standard of your so called elite fighters I am sure the person in the quote would not fit in to that standard..
- Bruce Lee is a legend in one way or other.. these kind of talking can not touch him.. so it's better not to try something that would not bring anything good to anyone.. no matter whether he was good enough or not it will not make you any better.. you see.. you are already talking about him.. but nobody is talking about you other than yourself..
A specific question to those who are claiming to be highly skillful, powerful, experts or champions of martial arts, unbeatable, etc. etc. and challenging capabilities of someone who has passed away..
- do you know yourself enough.. can anyone give figures on how many punches you can through at what kind of force, speed and distance in a second on target..
May be none will answer this as everyone knows that someone else may perform better.. so don't just think that you are really good but try to understand that there is no end of learning and achieving better results and feel that someone else may always be ahead of you whom you have never met and fix your target to achieve something beyond that someone where only you can fix that target and no-one else and end of the day you never know if someone else has fixed a higher target and achieved that already.. so try to beat your own shadow.. and don't step on to someone else's..
Have a good time..
Registered User
Real fighting, even among the most skilled, often looks sloppy and "unskilled" compared to the fantasies of movie fighting, forms dancing and demonstrations... especially when you throw in all ranges into the mix.
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