"Closed door" vs secular learning what's the difference?

[B.Tunks]

closed/close door and inner or enter the door are not the same thing.

[Three Harmonies]

Jimmy
95% of Chinese people could barely afford a "house" the size of my living room to live in, let alone several entrances, stone walls guarding them etc.
I see the point you are trying to make, but I think some of your history is confused.

Cheers
Jake

[Wong Ying Home]

I am allready closed door inner student with my sifu and have been for a number of years, my sifu has clearly stated that everything is taught openly as time passes. For My sifu the disciples are announced when my sifu is 60 years old and closes/washes her hands from teaching anyone further. It is at this time that she announces the inheritors of the system.

This is what it means in our family

[Sifu Darkfist]

Jimmy
95% of Chinese people could barely afford a "house" the size of my living room to live in, let alone several entrances, stone walls guarding them etc.
I see the point you are trying to make, but I think some of your history is confused.

Cheers
Jake

Actually Many of the Masters had compounds.

My history comes from a professor of history from the mainland that specializes in 1. imperial social order and Confucianism 2. was ex curator to the emperors bed chambers at the forbidden city. Although it is easy enough to follow my historical layout through History monologues

Just because something changes in meaning to each group does not negate the original context.

Closed door is the translation in english. Inside the door is also accepted. Confucian law calls upon the privacy of the family in several areas. This is later construed as general practice for most areas of interest.

Even the discipline of common crimes was left up to the Father or the eldest male member grandfather etc. inside closed doors.

It is based on trust and loyalty and the family before the individual, something absent in many American mindsets (not all of course).

I am sure of my sources in these respects. Refer to Shen fu six records of a floating life.

Even modest households held the same hierarchical construct and mimicked to as much as possible the imperial and Confucian model.
with the exception of the truly destitute.

Another good source is Gernet's "daily life in China on the eve of the Mongolian invasion. There are scores of others that underscore these principles. of behind "closed doors" and the practice of Confucian principles of ritual.

I can say unequivocally that my induction ceremony was exactly as historically spelled out in Confucian theory. All the way to the Kow Tow ritual and the ancestors etc.
These truisms are as strong as the feeling of Mandate From Heaven and exist in all traditional minded households (what are left after ccp).

Thanks for the lively debate all

[B.Tunks]

closed door (guanmen) means final, last. inner or enter gate/door (rumen) is what most of you are talking about and does not mean final. there can be many rumen tudimen there is generally one guanmen tudi. it does not mean they are superior, they are just last- before teacher 'closes hands' (or dies) and therefore usually end up with most of the teachers material possessions, quan pu etc and often but not always the responsibilities of continuation.

[EarthDragon]

sifudark fist, you stated
Actually Many of the Masters had compounds.


From what my teacher has told us many of the old masters form the mainland were farmers/grocers and indeed very poor. many of them were illiterate and used movements to show what they could not write down. This is very true with our system. also in our history there were no more than 2 rooms to any house or dwelling in shan dong.

[zhangxihuan]

actually as a Chinese scholar I can confirm that Darkfist's portrayal of ancient Chinese life is accurate...

true not everyone was that "wealthy" but the Confucianism remained.

[Three Harmonies]

Tunks hits the nail on the head.

I understand the "scholars" aproach here guys, (I studied it all in school too). But you ask any everyday Chinese person and they will look at you crossed eyed. The only people that "study" these things are scholars. Everyday people have no clue.
And 95% of the Chinese did not have a "compound." They were happy to have a room to live in!
Jake