Does anyone know anything about this school?

[larryc]

He Royal Dragon-- I was able to google this quickly:

United Martial Arts
Mr. Glenn Gottner
26 Evergreen Plaza, Arlington Hts. IL 60005
Home: (847) 459-7660
EMAIL: peanutmm7@msn.com

the site says updated as of mar 21, 2006. The same web page (http://www.mararts.org/active/BB1.shtml) says

Chung Moo Quan:
Glenn Gottner, 4th Degree
William McDonough, 4th Degree
James Rath, 4th Degree

you said: "although I hate to advocate teaching off of video, its quite a bit better than teaching Chung Moo Quan to anyone..." i agree and i even think experienced martial artists can learn beneficial things from videos. the part that bothers me is telling your students that you are passing along training you got from a master when in reality you are watching dvds... that is the style I call "Take One's Dough".

here's jerry cook stuff: http://www.unitedmartialarts.com/Cook_p1.htm

he is in arizona and gottner is in illinois, so maybe the train together by video recording each other and watching their dvds of each other?

ok, i don't know the man, but check out his web page. I'm a little suspicious of anyone who presents themselves in such grandeur-- and i don't believe anyone who says he is an "expert" in more than a half dozen or dozen forms, much less 108.

"master Jerry Cook is a true Master of the Martial Arts. He is a 7th Degree Black Belt in Karate and a Master of Chinese Kung Fu, specializing in traditional Shaolin and Wu Tang styles (internal and external arts). He has authored eight books on the martial arts, won over 50 tournaments, is an expert in 108-forms and has been teaching for over 30 years. He specializes in instructing high-ranking Black Belts in exotic weapons, forms and training systems. His extensive knowledge and expertise have made him an incomparable resource to the United Martial Arts schools throughout the nation, not to mention many other styles and schools. The following pages provide some of his history and credentials. Jerry is a good friend and a remarkable asset to the world of martial arts. "

..hmmm...must have written that himself...ya think?....

"an expert in 108-forms and has been teaching for over 30 years..."-- he must be insanely good to not only remember 108 forms, but to be an "expert" in them...how many hours of practice is that to do each one one time?...and if he's been teaching for over 30 years, that means he started teaching around the time of his first lesson.

"an incomparable resource to the United Martial Arts schools throughout the nation.." i checked, the uma formed in 1996 and if you pay $50 and agree to give them a piece of each student's money you can be an incomparable resource, too.

[Mas Judt]

Before I heard of Jerry Cook, I bought a tape at an MA event in San Jose. The tape purported to be 'Fukien White Crane."

It was actually Hung ga Fu Hok Kuen - and executed by someone who apparently never actually learned the system.

It was Jerry Cook. My first impression is the empty barrell makes the most noise.

[larryc]

Hey Mas Judt - you said it was jerry cook in the disappointing video- and I am not surprised, even though I never met the guy, since his ridiculous-sounding self-proclamations of greatness are a major indicator that something is wrong with the picture.

I like your "empty barrell" illustration. Here are some more that apply: Where there is smoke there is usually fire....where there is smell there is usually s_ _ t.

It's too bad the unsuspecting beginners fall for these con artists. It gives honest martial artists a bad name.

[Mas Judt]

It just seems typical to me that the guy the ex-mooers hook up with is kind of a tool.

[larryc]

So Psycho M you have further confirmed my suspicion of jerry cook. or is it "kook"?

Yes Mas, the ex-mooers...i see the pattern...as the dog returns to his vomit, so the fool repeats his folly.

[Johnny Tsai]

well, I found what Kenny Tsai is doing these days...

http://provisoprobe.blogspot.com/sea...l/Kenny%20Tsai

Apples don't fall far from trees... although a friend knows him and says he's actually a great guy. Folks who never get out of thier bubble tend to come off bad in situations like the one here...

Hello Mas Judt:


Not sure what the apple does not fall far from the tree comment meant...especially when tying into that negative article.

If you are from Chicago, then you would know that Grandmater Abbbate does indeed have a citywide rep as being legit and beyond all levels of toughness.


For the record Tai Kit Kuen stems from Hong Kong, Not Vietnam. It is also known as "Grand Snake Fist" hence the name Cobra Kai.

And finally, our family system does not Combine Northern Shaolin with "Kenpo".


Anyone interested in learning more about my dad can visit the About Grandmaster page at our family site www.tsaiskungfu.com.

JOE GANJI is a Kenpo guy, He and Tom Saviano refers to Kenpo as Kung fu as do a lot of people...big deal...

Quit putting the limitations of "tags" on what people do and grow as martial artists, or visit one of thee guys and find out first hand what they are truly about. I AM SURE THAT YOU WILL BE IMPRESSED BY ANY OF THEM, SKILLWISE OR OTHERWISE AS HUMAN BEINGS.




RegardS,


WAYSUN "JOHNNY" TSAI

[Nick Monticello]

Kung Fu is from China, Kem/npo is from Japan. It IS a big deal when you can't even get the name of your art correct. Someone looking to learn an authentic Chinese art will be mislead by the use of Kung Fu for a Japanese base system.

To call Kempo, KungFu is dishonest, it's not just a "Tag". When he is dishonest, it does not matter how good he is.

[Johnny Tsai]

Kung Fu is from China, Kem/npo is from Japan. It IS a big deal when you can't even get the name of your art correct. Someone looking to learn an authentic Chinese art will be mislead by the use of Kung Fu for a Japanese base system.

To call Kempo, KungFu is dishonest, it's not just a "Tag". When he is dishonest, it does not matter how good he is.

Nick,


If it's that big of a deal, you are in Chicagoland, go to his school ask ask him to his fac about his lineage, don't call him dishonest over the internet...what is that going to acomplish? Overall, it does nothing to better martial arts in general.


Has he ever been dishonet directly to your face?



I sure he does't even maintain his website himself. As far as traditional CMA goes,
If you are still with Andrew Lee's Bei school, good for you, he has nice traditional forms.


Regards-


Waysun Johnny Tsai

[Mega-Foot]

Well, maybe he hasn't been dishonest with Nick, but he has been both dishonest and disrespectful to me. If you want the details, I'll tell them in private. Or if it warrants a thread, make one and I'll fess up.

[Mas Judt]

Hey Johnny,
I knew your father, and was rather fond of him in some ways even though our interaction was short. The apple comment refers to things politely left unsaid to the public. Lets just say your dad had a lot of interesting business deals. Any judgement you ad is your own.

FWIW - your brother Kenny used to fight a classmate of mine all the time back in the 80's - Bobby Joe Ross. Great fights. Kenny had a heart of lion. (He probably still does.)

Mas judt

[Johnny Tsai]

Well, maybe he hasn't been dishonest with Nick, but he has been both dishonest and disrespectful to me. If you want the details, I'll tell them in private. Or if it warrants a thread, make one and I'll fess up.

Mega-Foot,


Ok. Here is my final thought on this. I am sorry if he has dis-respected you, again, it should be brought to the man directly, face to face. I don't care to hear about it, it does not concern me, at least I hope not. But, overall it's my not my business and I don't think it's anyone else's either.

However, Starting slanderous rumors, just hurts martial arts period. If Nick did have a bad interaction With Joe Ganji, Would it make him give a Bias review of Joe Ganji's school? who Knows...But the proper and adult way to seek the truth would be to call the man or make a visit.

However, if Nick did not have a direct, dishonest or disrespectful encounter with the man, than what does that say of Nick? (in theory of course, I have no idea who Nick is.)

I just found out today that my father taught a hybrid of Northern Shaolin and Kenpo on this site! Again, mis-information from the mis-informed.


That's the problem with these web-site/forums, too much mis-information and too many eager people ready to believe what they read.


All the best-

Waysun Johnny Tsai

[Black Jack II]

Johnny,

Mega is a troll man, totally skip it and you will save time.

[Johnny Tsai]

Johnny,

Mega is a troll man, totally skip it and you will save time.

Black Jack,


That's cool, I wasn't about to contact him regarding this anyway. Thanks.

[larryc]

Master Johnny Tsai is teaching an important lesson to everyone by responding humbly and with self-control to remarks that imply negative things about the character of his father, his brother, Steve Abbate and Joe Gangi, and that attack the credibility of his martial arts style. He's obviously being more polite than other people.

I would not have stumbled upon this thread or even this web group if I had not googled Steve Abbate's name in an effort to check up on how my old Sifu is doing these days. Had I not already known him and Gangi well, and had I believed everything I read, I would have been greatly misled by some of the things I read here. Be careful what you say.

The only way to judge a person is to visit and preferably train with them- so you can see their technique, their conditioning, and their ability, and understand their character. Just telling me your style, your rank, your title, your teacher's lineage doesn't mean all that much if you don't practice hard and condition your body. There are plenty of bad martial artists at good schools and in good styles.

Master Tsai, please give my best regards to Steve Abbate and let him know you heard from the youngest of the Cruz brothers-- Larry. I live on the East Coast for the past 11 years, but I'll be in Chi town late in the summer-- please let me know if there are any tournaments or events in late July or early August in which I might meet you or run into Abbate. Maybe some of the guys posting on this thread will also go.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I am up for going if there is an event!