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Thread: Does anyone know anything about this school?

  1. #76
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Texas
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    1,349
    Hmmm.....interesting. All of my belt certificates from Shaolin Kempo with USSD and Villari reads:

    ".....has completed all requirements for the rank of ___________ in the art of Shaolin Chuan Fa.........."


    On my Ralph Castro certificate it does say say Kenpo Karate rather than Shaolin Chuan Fa.


    I notice on your website that your system is Shaolin Chuan Fa. I am sure there is a drastic difference in my Shaolin Chuan Fa vs yours. Master Tsai, any thoughts on this?
    Master of Shaolin I-Ching Bu Ti, GunGoPow and I Hung Wei Lo styles.

    I am seeking sparring partner. Any level. Looking for blondes or redhead. 5'2" to 5'9". Between 115-135 weight class. Females between 17-30 only need apply. Will extensively work on grappling.

  2. #77

    Red face

    larry C,


    I will prob call and see how GM Abbate is feeling next week and will let him know that you sent you said hello.

    Originally Posted by Nick Monticello :
    "Kung Fu is from China, Kem/npo is from Japan. It IS a big deal when you can't even get the name of your art correct. Someone looking to learn an authentic Chinese art will be mislead by the use of Kung Fu for a Japanese base system."

    To call Kempo, KungFu is dishonest, it's not just a "Tag". When he is dishonest, it does not matter how good he is.


    To Nick,

    I was curious about the connection did some research on the Kung Fu/Karate Kenpo/Kempo debate about 2 years back, and googled all kinds of links to Shaolin Chuan Fa Kenpo/Kempo. My findings is that Kenpo/Kempo literally translates into Chuan Fa, I guess that's why many call it Chinese Kenpo/Kempo or Shaolin Kenpo as in Shaolin Chuan Fa or how ever you want to call it, and please correct me if I am incorrect, but didn't the word Karate originally mean "China hand" before it was changed to "empty/open hand"? So in the end , is it not just a tag?

    I agree if you are looking for Longfist and PlumFlower forms, A Kenpo school is prob not going to fulfill your hunger. But reseach shows that it stems from China and therefore if some wish to call it Kung Fu, is not being dishonest.

    For the record the word though "Kung Fu'" does not translate into "Authenic Chinese art".

    It also does not translate into martial art/war art, Wushu does.

    Some will tell you that"Wushu" Is not kung fu at all but cool looking acrobatic stuff. and has no application at all, but the "tag" translates into martial arts even though it is something else than an art useful in combat.

    Kenpo translates ito Chuan Fa, not Karate...again all just tags when it comes down to fighting anyway...

    So what the hell is Kung fu then?... What I grew up on is "Skill through hard work/effort", and if that is what Joe Ganji Teaches in his school, then I guess the tag fits.


    Regards,

    Waysun Johnny Tsai

  3. #78
    I notice on your website that your system is Shaolin Chuan Fa. I am sure there is a drastic difference in my Shaolin Chuan Fa vs yours. Master Tsai, any thoughts on this?[/QUOTE]


    I don't know, I am sure there are differnces, but how drastic , hard to tell without meeting up. We do teach Longfist at ours schools if that is what you are asking.

    I have traveled around the country aand seen 18 different versions of 18 Lohan, not drastic differences or changes but different versions none the less.

    Also, throughout my travels, I find that most TCMA school teach some of the same standard forms and a lot of different stuff too. I enjoy it all.


    Regards,

    Waysun Johnny Tsai

  4. #79
    Johnny Tsai,
    How are you? I got my Kung Fu start in your Father's school in Norridge/Harwqood Hts (Whatever town Irving and Harlem is).

    I would like to make a simple point on the whole Kempo/Chuan Fa debate. Kempo/Kenpo is Japanese for "Fist Method". Chuan Fa is Chinese for "Fist Method". Just because two different languages have words for "Fist Method", does not mean you can interchange them. The reason for this is because we have a third language in play here, and that is American. Once you get to the American language, the use of Japanese termonoloy will naturally mean a Japanese art, and the use of Chinese termonology will mean a Chinese art.

    Now, Karate may mean "China Hand" in *Japanese*, but it still referes to a *Japanese* art that has roots in a Chinese art. Karate however, is still a Japanese style, and has changed too much from it's Chinese roots to be still considered a Chinese art. So, if you say you are doing Karate, everyone knows you are refering to the Japanese styles of fighting, not a Chinese style.

    Kempo/Kenpo is also similar as it is basically a Japanese style. To say Kem/npo is Chuan Fa is not linguistically correct in the US because that would designate it as a Chinese art, when it is infact a Japanese one. It's an erronious *Tag*, and misleading to the general public, especially the layman. It would be accurate to call it Kem/npo, because THAT is what it is. It would be more specifically accurate to call it by whatever sub style it is (example; Paker Kempo etc..)

    Terms like Chuan Fa, Kung Fu, Wushu, Wu Gong refer to Chinese arts specifically.

    Terms like Akido, Karate, Kem/npo, Judo, and Jujitsu refer to Japanese arts.

    If someone was teaching a Japanese art, then to be accurate, and not confuse others, they should refer to it with the propper termonology. Otherwise it opens them up to criticizem.

  5. #80
    Master Tsai - Thanks for agreeing to say hello to GM Abbate for me.

    To all of you losing sleep over who calls their style what-- "Karate" "Kenpo" "Kempo" "Chuan Fa" "Kung Fu" "Gong Fu" are all generic words that all mean about the same thing, and none of which specify one style of martial arts. So the next time someone says they teach "Kempo" or "Kung Fu" etc-- you should ask them "What style?"

    Based on my 33 years of training I offer this comment: If you are teaching a style with the same name but that appears different from someone else's school using the same style name, it could mean: 1) your instructor or one of the instructors who passed it down to him changed the style; 2) your instructor or one of the instructors who passed it down to him called it the wrong name; or 3) a combination of 1) or 2).

    Every instructor is always going to emphasize or teach something slightly different. It seems you can only stay "pure" by not altering the forms/katas of your style.

    Another approach - though not my peronal favorite- is like JKA Shotokan-- where they stress uniformity in every nuance of the class.

    WuShu and Kodokan Judo preserve uniformity by having competitions where you are forced to use the exact same forms/ techniques as the other schools because of the competition.

    Larry C

  6. #81
    I don't care for uniformity, just call it what it is, that is all.

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by RD'S Alias - 1A View Post
    Johnny Tsai,
    How are you? I got my Kung Fu start in your Father's school in Norridge/Harwqood Hts (Whatever town Irving and Harlem is).

    I would like to make a simple point on the whole Kempo/Chuan Fa debate. Kempo/Kenpo is Japanese for "Fist Method". Chuan Fa is Chinese for "Fist Method". Just because two different languages have words for "Fist Method", does not mean you can interchange them. The reason for this is because we have a third language in play here, and that is American. Once you get to the American language, the use of Japanese termonoloy will naturally mean a Japanese art, and the use of Chinese termonology will mean a Chinese art.

    Now, Karate may mean "China Hand" in *Japanese*, but it still referes to a *Japanese* art that has roots in a Chinese art. Karate however, is still a Japanese style, and has changed too much from it's Chinese roots to be still considered a Chinese art. So, if you say you are doing Karate, everyone knows you are refering to the Japanese styles of fighting, not a Chinese style.

    Kempo/Kenpo is also similar as it is basically a Japanese style. To say Kem/npo is Chuan Fa is not linguistically correct in the US because that would designate it as a Chinese art, when it is infact a Japanese one. It's an erronious *Tag*, and misleading to the general public, especially the layman. It would be accurate to call it Kem/npo, because THAT is what it is. It would be more specifically accurate to call it by whatever sub style it is (example; Paker Kempo etc..)

    Terms like Chuan Fa, Kung Fu, Wushu, Wu Gong refer to Chinese arts specifically.

    Terms like Akido, Karate, Kem/npo, Judo, and Jujitsu refer to Japanese arts.

    If someone was teaching a Japanese art, then to be accurate, and not confuse others, they should refer to it with the propper termonology. Otherwise it opens them up to criticizem.

    Ok This is becoming a waste of my time., so here is my last reply.

    First off, the Harlem and Irving School was basically my school for 6 years, and if you got your start there you were prob my student unles you started 3 months before the place closed , that's when I left. if you were my student , you can PM me.



    2nd, just do a yahoo search on Chinese Kenpo or Shaolin Kenpo, that's what I did, It's all there /kung fu/karate, it just depends on how true to the Shaolin roots an individual school stays. All the research I found state that the term Kenpo borrowed from the Chinese word Chuan Fa.

    3rd. you are missing the pointof my first reply, to say Joe Ganji is a dishonest Karate guy because he tags it Kung Fu is pure stupidity unless you visit his school and see what he is about and what he offers and allow him to describe his lineage personally, and I do believe he does have some TCMA background. Last I check my TCMA / Shaolin buddy Sifu Tim Wright was over there teaching TCMA forms, but no one off this website would know that unless going by the school and talking to Ganji or Sifu Tim.

    4th. If someone wants to learn TCMA or a specific then thats what they should ask for when calling or visiting a school, "Kung Fu" is too generic and and trust me I have seen a lot of non-TCMA "Kung Fu".


    Regards,


    Waysun John Tsai

  8. #83
    Last I check my TCMA / Shaolin buddy Sifu Tim Wright was over there teaching TCMA forms, but no one off this website would know that unless going by the school and talking to Ganji or Sifu Tim.

    Reply]
    That makes the use of the term ok then.

    When I started, your Father was in the Office, classes were taught by Gia Spencer, Sifu Chris, and Sifu Percy brown. There was another guy around too, a slightly heavier individual, but I don't remember his name.

    The school closed aproximately 6-8 months after i started, and several of us went over by Master Abbate's school. I am guessing 1994-5 ish, maybe as early as 93 (My memory for time lines sux). This was just prior to my Divorce, and brewing family issues kept me from a consistant training schedule.

    You gave me my intro lesson, or Maybe Kenny, I can't remeber which anymore. I do remember It was me, My brother and a girl, If I remember correctly. I signed several months later, My brother did not untill many years later, and was at the River Grove school for a short time.

    Just due to the topsy turvy life I had back then, i never made any real rank tests, but go a peice of tape on my sash. I don't know how far my brother got.
    Last edited by RD'S Alias - 1A; 04-30-2007 at 09:50 AM.

  9. #84
    "When I started, your Father was in the Office, classes were taught by Gia Spencer, Sifu Chris, and Sifu Percy brown. There was another guy around too, a slightly heavier individual, but I don't remember his name.

    The school closed aproximately 6-8 months after i started, and several of us went over by Master Abbate's school. I am guessing 1994-5 ish, maybe as early as 93 (My memory for time lines sux). This was just prior to my Divorce, and brewing family issues kept me from a consistant training schedule.

    You gave me my intro lesson, or Maybe Kenny, I can't remeber which anymore. I do remember It was me, My brother and a girl, If I remember correctly. I signed several months later, My brother did not untill many years later, and was at the River Grove school for a short time."


    1993-1994 sounds about right. That;'s when I left and my Dad brought in Sifu gia, but mainly Percy and Chris. Percy and Chris were "outsiders" brought in to help, whom neither of them had any experience operating a school so it closed in about 6 months.

  10. #85

    he has a point

    that Americans have permanently - perhaps - associated the term karate, for right or wrong, with japanese arts. It's kind of frustrating in my style that they insist on retaining the term karate because of a number or pointless reasons. One could argue that if the whole world is wrong, changing to be like them doesn't mean everyone is now right. But, at the same time, you can't fight an ocean of consciousness. If Kung Fu is the terms people mean for TCMA because of Bruce Lee's movies, then we can't help that. I think it's every teachers' responsibility to teach the correction to his/her students so in a few generations at least a sizable percentage of folks know of the correct terminology, but we can't as a community, force teachers to do this. We can't say, "You must call it karate or chuanfa, and describe kung fu as excellence of form!"
    So I don't know what the answer is. Do we embrace it and make it worse because it makes our lives easier through marketing to the groups looking for our services? Or do we hold true to the history and culture because we have an obligation to uphold the gifts given to us by old masters?
    That is an individual choice. I think the best answer is that we should use what we need and be sure to teach the truth. Anyone have a better idea?
    Well, I do, but our community is not ready yet. We simply are too young a community.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Chicago, IL
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    233
    I'm not going on here to completely bash Joe Gangi I trained with him over 10 years ago and actually recieved a black belt from him however I later moved on to other schools which I saw as more legit when it comes to "kung-fu".

    He was a good instructor and did teach me a lot of things however to this day I believe that he uses kung-fu for marketing purposes though he does or did incorperate quite a few of the kung-fu hand movements in his regemine such as a few mantis, tiger, snake etc.

    We did the (sorry about spelling if it's wrong) Pinyon series of forms which are traditional Karate forms along with a few other very karate type forms. There was a snake and tiger form he had however it pretty much coppied te pattern of one of the karate forms with snake and tiger hand movements.

    Calls himself shihan and the instructors senseis which is a Japaneese Karate term if i'm not mistaken.

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