you guys are like a merry go round.... going round and round...... and getting NO WHERE!
Registered User
you guys are like a merry go round.... going round and round...... and getting NO WHERE!
Anthony Iglesias
www.syracusemartialarts.com
Banned
Originally Posted by leejunfan
Dude, don't I know it.
I know that I'm not going to convince Hendrik -- he's a "true believer". This stuff is a religion for him: he accepts it on faith. There are many like him in the TCMAs, which tends to attract that crowd. I only respond so that he, and others, are aware that there are people with differing views. Just like I do with the HFY crowd and their "history". And that's because I think that if something is said often enough, especially if it goes unchallenged, it sometimes begins to become "accepted" as mainstream.
Sorry if it gets tiresome.
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Hendrik, you love to cite everything but results. I don't accept anything Robert or some "ancestor" says as true simply because they said it -- our motto is "let application be your sifu.".....---T
VEry important, please clear with your sifu Robert Chu before you brought up "our motto is "let application be your sifu."
As a TCM doctor and TCM, sifu Robert Chu knows the truth of any Chinese art be it Chinese medicine or Chinese Kung Fu had to consist of two parts, the Application and the "body" or Tee and Yoong. making a qout as above is just IMHHHO mis-inteprete the art of Sifu Robert Chu with your view that is not Robert's view.
In my humble opinion, if you are not sure about your sifu's teaching, ask, listern, and comprehend before qouting it.
Terence, you love to jump gun on whatever you think instead of what I present.
and stop trying to use RESULT to manupulate to control other or try to make others need your approval.
IN the past,
I have post to you in this forum.
This is the second time.
AT ANY TIME, ANY PLACE
Bring you best MMA fighter, Bring a group of Scientis with Biofeedback Machine. Let's do a study. I coach the MMA fighter with the Process I know. and let the real Scientis via Biofeedback data see will these type of training improve and how much it will improve the ability of your MMA figther. ofcorse you need to sign a NDA by law because it is about technology process and it is not free.
See, result as in ENGINEERING needed to be MEASUREABLE.
INstead of you speak about result result result, fighting fighting fighting, those nonsense, for you yourself have never ever join a K1 type of competition. Prove me wrong, where have you really compete with signing the death waver as in K1 or Mauy Thai or any international KO pro? So, stop BSing with just mouth.
But in reality, I doubt you even have control on your heart beat and Heart beat rythm. You want to talk about fighting result without even be able to handle your own heart beat and heart beat rythm?
You want to talk about performance under pressure? how good is your handling on your Heart beat rythm? if you dont even know and aware of it, forget about your result result and figthing fighting.
Come on, Prove me wrong with your heart beat and heart beat rythm data. Show us here what is your data or track record to handle them. Show us how.
if you dont have it, what are you developing?
Using the GungHO language as only some could comprehend:
How the heck you perfom under pressure when you heart is almost jumping out of your chest and your brain wave is totally screw up.
So, you want to talk fighting? result? show me how the hell you manage this stuffs? Dont give me those BJJ girp or Tan DA BS. if you dont have handling on your heart and brain, you already lost atleast 50% unless you are not fighting but bullying weaker person. and in that case, ya, dont BS thinking you are Warrior. Warrior of what?
OK. that is a different way of communicating.hahaha
hahaha, dont day dream.
May be you have too much time to waste but sorry sir, this is my last post for you. I am just not interested to discuss the topic of Wing Chun - development of a martial art with you simply because
1, you deny what the ancient Chinese ancestors has practiced and thier tradition. and always love to twisted words to make yourself THE GOD of all knowing eventhough you have no clue on what is going on. I am not saying the Chinese ancestors are perfect. But, to study somehting one needs to know what it is instead of playing GOD thinking one knows it all where one has zero idea about the subject.
2, you keep bring up the term result or fighting however they are empty because they are not measureable objectively as in scientific study, and you also deny to take any challenge in providing any basic scientifically measurable data such as heart beat rythm on how a certain practice will or will not improve one's body condition which directly or indirectly influence the perfomance of a person who practice the art.
BTW. the more you post, the more you shown the disrespect of Chinese tradition. I hope you are not a Racism with superiority complex toward Chinese culture.
I rest my post here and nolonger read this time wasting post, whoever interested in technical discussion could contact me in other thread.
this is because my intention as in my posts are to present whatever details could be investigate and discuss. Not "I am right you are wrong" type of double standard ego non sense.
Last edited by Hendrik; 02-24-2007 at 01:23 PM.
Registered User
Where did this come from?
I don't always agree with Terence, but to make this type of comment is absurd.
Hendrik. You should seriously consider retracting this slanderous comment.
Thank you for your advise and certainly you can view it that way.
However, for me, it is not sladerous because I express my true gut feeling after reading his posts. I cant deny my feeling and not intended to.
Perhaps, it is a culture different stuffs since we all raise in a different culture.
I am sure some will agree with you and some will agree with me. so, let this be not the point of discussion.
if you like to have a specific example:
"just like I do with the ______ crowd and their "history". And that's because I think that if something is said often enough, especially if it goes unchallenged, it sometimes begins to become "accepted" as mainstream."-----
I dont know about western culture, but, doing this in public in an unrelated thread, is
in Chinese culture is similar to call some one ba$tArd****.
NO traditional Chinese would like to have others question them about thier ancestors exist.
Challenge what? how much has he knows? is he a police to question all Chinese Cultural and mind set?
read the above posts, see how much he knows about Chinese tradition art? almost zero. So, what to challenge? if the person who wrote this is not base on EGO and Superiority complex of thinking I am right you are wrong type of assumption. what is it?
This type of stuffs usually get one's own sifu in trouble if it is happen in the Oriental.
This is exactly the type which is dislike by the older chinese even up to today,
Same old same old of when some westerners went to china in 1900;
first, in the name of science deny all of Chinese medicine practice...
then, deny all about the history of chinese, cut the almost 5 thousand years of history into half because for those westerners, what the chinese said is not possible.... and the down play continous.
Just to share with you, one of my old Qigong sifu told me how sad he feel about those practice and down play, he told me "cant people look at things in a different perspective instead of destroy these precious treasure of the ancestors due to they have no knowledge about what is going on?" see, western medicine cant heal High Blood Pressure but control with drug, Qigong could heal in many cases and atleas have a hope to heal and cured. That is one proof of the result. but in the old time, TCM and Qigong got right away kick out...
We are living in 2007, I hope everyone learn to have a better communication.
Last edited by Hendrik; 02-24-2007 at 01:48 PM.
Banned
Hendrik, it is not a matter of a "different perspective" or different culture -- not all perspectives are valid. It is a question of what is true. The ancient chinese perspective is simply wrong about how the world, the human body, etc. work. Perhaps traditional chinese wouldn't question these things; that still doesn't make their view correct. The Mayans may have believed that the world was on the back of a giant tortoise; that is their perspective. They may not have questioned such things either. But they were wrong. We know more today than the Mayan's did, and we know more today than the ancient chinese.
Nor do I adhere to a code of conduct for a culture that is dead. We aren't living in the 18th century and this isn't China. Get over it. The world has moved on and so should you.
You keep wanting to bring Robert into this. And I keep telling you, there is no authority in WCK. If Robert believes this stuff (which IMO he doesn't), he is wrong. If Desmond Tutu believes it, he is wrong. If it is written in a kuit, the kuit is wrong. I don't care who believes the world really exists on the back of a tortoise or who believes the traditional chinese paradigm -- they are wrong. That is not how the world or the human body works. The traditional chinese training doesn't produce good results.
We know better today how to train for any athletic activity. The level of athletes today proves it, scientific studies prove it (go buy and read "Motor Control and Learning"; they've done thousands of scientific studies to figure this stuff out), etc. *All* combative athletes that can fight at decent skill level or above follow the more modern training model (which is based in reality). Kano, when he applied that model to traditional japanese jiujitsu, dominated all the traditional guys. The evidence is overwhelming. You can't find one person who uses your model and has decent fighting skills. What does that say?
You keep wanting to make it personal -- bringing in my ego, what I can or cannot do, calling me names, etc. None of that matters. I'm sorry, but the world isn't on the back of a tortoise.
Registered User
I totally accept your view, totally accept your way of thinking, and totally accept the mission you set for yourself.
however, I reserve my right to agree with them or not.
May it is a good time to let others going back to their discussion with focus on WCK development?
Last edited by Hendrik; 02-24-2007 at 03:15 PM.
That was Zen, this is Tao
Hendrik,
Slander has nothing to do with how you feel, it is based on facts. It also has nothing to do with how many people agree with you. Group-think rarely produces enlightened behaviour.
History is full of examples where one group of people abused another group. This is a sad characteristic of the human race. We can all be accused of being gulity of the sins of our forefathers. If we continue to focus on what has happened in the past, we cannot move foward. The past cannot be changed. Let's learn from it, but not use it as a weapon to fuel anger or justify present day prejudice. Otherwise we will be locked into a vicious cycle.
Like you, I do not need someone else's approval to justify my beliefs. Stop trying to use force to change a mind that so inflexible. It is really a waste of time, IMO. I will paraphrase a quote that I often like to use; "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who do not believe, no amount of proof will suffice."
On a more pleasant note, we can now see the Lunar New Year celebrated openly by many different peoples in countries which used to offer that same culture nothing but disdain in the past. Things can change if we open ourselves to them. True, the change seems painfully slow at times, but it does happen.
'Talk is cheap because there is an excess of supply over demand'
Registered User
Guys..... just drop this tiresome arguement. Niether one of you is going to convince the other.... and in the grand scheme..... this thread will have absolutely NO IMPACT on kung fu/wing chun/martial arts as a whole. It's not even the beginning of a blip on the radar
Last edited by leejunfan; 02-24-2007 at 05:12 PM.
Anthony Iglesias
www.syracusemartialarts.com
Registered User
My comments follow below with ++++
Part 1
Just some thoughts for technical discussion:
Please do not read this post if you are not interested in technical and only technical discussion. For IMHO, this post might be political incorrect because it is about digging up what is the truth.
+++Those who cant handle the fire need to get out of the Kitchen. The fire of truth burns and consumes all who challenge it.
You dont have to agree with me.
f we are talking Traditional Chinese Martial art, then,
we first has to know what is an external art and what is an internal art. we need to actually trained with experience teacher before we can make any type of comment which reflex the reality. Otherwise, it is a mind spining seculation not what reality is about.
++++True. And hopefully in your above statement you were not assumeing what i have or havnt trained. As i am probably one of the only people here posting who has legitamelty trained the Basic Sup Yee Zhuang methods.
Mind speculation has little to do with the truth, of cource only someone with "Grounded Vision" or "Clear Vision" can percieve the truth. Speculation on what someone does or doesnt mean is also worthless, and serves nothing more than casting the Eye of Judgment and causing stryfe and feeds the ego. Reality isnt about trying to proove others are not Percieving Reality. And what hope does one have with words to convey that which cant be conveyed with words??.
Your example of Yin and Yang IMHO, is off the mark totally, IMHO, because one cannnot be awake and sleeping in the same time disregard how one can reason logically or thinking reasonablely.
+++As" true reality" isnt based on Dual states , like your analogy of sleeping and awake, that is a spinning mind speculation, IMO.
"True Reality" is actually only "1". Yin and Yang are the same substance, just as electrisitiy has 2 states of Positive and Negative, of only 1 substance. Those who have clear vision, and have walked it experiance it. This requires a Wholistic view, though, not one of Demarcation and segmenting. Once who experiances isnt always one who can put it into words. But does that matter? As words are not the truth.
Most of us, eventhought see lots of Taiji or whatever so called internal art on TV or DVD...ect the truth is how many including those in China has activated the 8 special medirians and doing the set with that type of standard?
+++You tread on dangerous ground in terms of words. Who defines what is internal?? Who is the judge? Who chooses the judge ? Who states 8 special meridians = Intenal ? Who states just Du and Ren activated with Dan Tien build up = internal? Who states Internal is about Breath? Who states Internal is about Chi?? Who states its none of these? or all of these?? Who states its about Posture for the internal?? Who is right ? Who is wrong ? And who is set up as Judge?? Many classics. And many conflicts about what is or isnt Internal or external. Whats the referance point? Who deciedes the referance point? Who is sets the criterion? Do we talk TCM standard?? or MA standard? if Ma, what kind Wudang, southern Siu lum, Northern shaolin, Hakka, Emie ?
If not, then one doesnt know what is internal training. That clear. However, how many of us willing to accept this facts? NOPE, mimic posture is not by default internal art at all.
+++lost you. Not sure why this was mentioned. Who says mimicing a posture is internal?? Who states Internal is just about posture?? That doesnt make any sence.
Thus, I have heard.
So, that is another layer of depth one needs to enter to know internal. Until the special 8 medirians is activate, one just could imagine what is that about.
so, if we are using this type of standard, look at the WCner of the past 60 years. HOw many have this type of understanding?
+++How would one know that 8 special need to be activated, if one hasnt activated them? As they would be just speculating or taking someone elses word for it. So you have done this??
Wing chun is not an internal style. -------
Again, if one is talking about Traditional Chinese Martial art, then one needs to first define what is an internal art of TRaditional Chinese Martial art, what is the process of the training, otherwise, there is no discussion can be proceed.
+++True. BUt who defines?? Who is the chosen to define for ""ALL TRADITIONAL CHINESE MA"" ? Experiance leads differant people to differant perceptions and diffeant training. Hence we have thousands of variations of the Chinese MA as well as thousands of training methods. If there was only 1 correct perception,or 1 correct training method, we would only have 1 Chinese MA in existance.
Its not Emie Sup Yee Zhuang.-------
It is not Emie Sup Yee Zhuang but it has the components of Emie 12 Zhuang, that is a fact by evidents which we know today.
+++Component- and since the component was removed from the Emie"system" and fused with other components removed from the Crane "System" is has been fused and used to create a New "System" which is neither of the orignal 2.
WCK could be practised like Emie Sup Yee Zhuang or It could be practised like Weng Chun County White Crane. or it can be practised like it should, in the middle. -----
So, how is WCK practice like Emie Sup Yee Zhuang is like? what kind of result will it yield?
So, HOw is WCK practive like Weng Chun County White Crane is like? what kind of result will it yield?
So, what is middle? what kind of result will it yield?
Until these are all clear, there is no meaning for the speculation because it really has no meaning in the TRaditional Chinese Martial art experience sense, May be in arguement shake make sense. But in training and the process of training what is that means?
+++Again, if you personaly havnt trained Emie 12 jong from the current or the last lineage holder or a diciple, nor personaly trained Yong chun Coutny White crane , you wouldnt be able to answer the above questions, and the above is more arguement for arguement sake. Simply reading a book, or knowing someone that trains it, isnt first hand experiance. And if you do train them, like i do, am i qualified?? How far have i traveled in the approaches?? My answer would be differant than Grandmaster Fu's. What kind of results?? Depends are where you are in the training, and how deep you go.
Many differant results. As there are many differant branchs with diffearnt training methods just of Yong Chun White Crane. So all of the above is still speculation. And your statement does apply, as in perhaps the above makes sence in an arguement - word sence, but are the questions being asked by someone who doesnt have the answers - So are the right questions being asked?
I dont say this to be contrary - as you know i have great respect for you, but to me its just as much speculation as anyone else. And either one trains and than will gradualy come to understand or one is simply talking.
Focusing on 1 and not both, would be counter intuitive to Why WCK was created.----
This is a problem. do we know what are those parents are? do we have indepth knowledge via experience? if not then we dont know.
+++I agree. See above. And my statments are made based on Real time experiance with both as well as 20 years in WCK. That is what i have been doing for the last 2 years. Experianceing and learning about White Crane and Emie systems and training basics so i can understand the differance between them both and WCK . Im also starting to make regular trips to learn the entire 12 jong system, while im visiting my YKS sifu. But the question should be also asked of yourself and everyone. Have you studied both formaly?? Have you learned Emie from Grandmaster Fu or a Student? Or someone who went to a seminar once?? or from a book?? if not, its mind spectulation.
"i see thy nose, but not what dog to feed it to" othello
Registered User
part 2
True,
However, the second one practice whatever style which is based on Emei 12 Jong in a hard/external way. there no longer has the benifit of the Emei 12 jong. Because Emei 12 Jong based art is internal and solid internal and only can yield result with Internal training. Go Emei way has to go internal. meaning is one practice the move in the external or hard way. The SNAKE DIE. snake has to go soft and internal if it is taking advantage/benifit from the Emei 12 zhuang's snake slide pupal moves.
+++This sounds based on speculation. WCK can be done like Emie but than its not WCK, as WCK isnt emie. It onlly contains elements of Emie.
And whats interesting is, it is not clear, how internal the Oldest version of WCK was, as its unclear what "The" exact original system looked like. The Writings of Yik kam may point to an Internal WCK, but that isnt pointed to in Cho Gar system proper, YKS, Kulo, Cheung Bo or Lo Kwai family. The core older systems all stressed Tendon Devlopement via twisiting and releasing. YKS had 2 teachers. We know one of them was on the RedBoats and possibly both of them. They didnt pass down an exclusivly Internal system. Instead a style that had attributes of both methods of training. So it seems that since more systems do not preserve an entirely Internal WCK its likely that it has never been so. Now, perhaps one person or a few people specialized in using the Emie system components.
Leung Jan and known Doctor didnt pass down WCK as an internal system. In Foshan his student Lo Kwai still has relatives to this day preserving Leungs teachings from that era. He to passed down supplemental Hei Gung forms similar to the form from Wai yuk Sang. As did Pan Nam. As does certain branchs of Cho Gar. As does Fut Sau WCK.
what is a middle path in term of Mind/Body/Qi? until one could define that we dont know what is it but just word without meaning.
+++All internet discusions have no meaning and are only words. And mostly used to feed ego. And definitions of words have differant meaning from person to person. So by whos standard do we define this words you listed? Mind/Body/Chi are differant Phases of condensation of One, that are a micro cosmic version of the Macrocosm.
The words i use to desribe it is Spirit, Soul, and Body. Mind falls within Soul, and has 2 phases. The Spiritual Soul/Mind and the Body Soul/mind. the first is the Higher mind. The second is the ego false mind. Chi is part of the Body layer. And has several aspects including a Formative propery/Blue Print.
IMHHHHO,
it is not a middle path. it is Snake powered Crane potential.
Snake powered because the process of training capable to cultivate a snake like power.
Crane potential because the application potential is core on center line, five elements concept of white crane of Fujian.
So, it is an internal cultivation art using the center potential. Look at the SLT/SNT is that is the set presenting and expressing? the issue today is that one still can identify the Crane potential however the snake powered has fade away much more servely and become no clear.
++++The crane has faded from modern WCK. Hence most people who use H.K WCK as a referance point for comparison with crane systems, dont see the link, as the crane elements have been streamlined out.
When you take older systems, such as Cho, YKS, Kulo, the crane influence is Obvious.
And your personal idea of the Snake may or may not exist anymore and May or may not have ever been part of the ancestral system. You havnt defined it clearly, nor explained how others can train it so they can learn from experiance. I may understand your meaning but may not. The mechanics of Emie are differant to how i pracise my WCK.
But the Use of the Snake boxing component is still prevelant in YKS, Cheung Bo, and Yiu Choi/Yiu Kay branchs. Its a core component that has been trained since the late 1800s. Fok Cho Chuen specialized in the Sai Ying Sau method for example. This is totaly differant to your idea of Snake engine. Snake hand and spiraling energy is a core component of most old School WCK.
Programing the muscles is a valid part of the Sup Yee San SIk training in YKS and Kulo WCK. -------
That is fine, and WCK has been going Throught multi Localization Evolution due to multi-lineage and 150 years atleast. So, some might like it to be Kyokushin style and some will like it to be BJJ style. Nothing wrong with it. everyone is right. however, how to turn on the SLT/SNT engine? that become a question.
+++I agree the Engine needs to be turned on> But there are alot more things that need to be understood before we can clearly see the ancestral method WCk used to do this. And Tendon Changing and muscle programing isnt proven to be a Localized evolution. And actually contrary to that, is the Internal training seems to be a localized evolution of the system that only a few focused on.
During this programing Yik Gang is trained.-----
Could Yi Gang turn on the SLT/SNT Engine? NOPE, If Yi Gang training could turn it on then one doesnt need supplement such as the kidney Qi return to its origine.. IMHO.Yi Gang is not Snake slide pulpa move, not to mention Yi Gang has many version. So which version of Yi Gang? That needs to be solved.
++++Yik Gang has never been supposed to turn on the engine. Its a method of body conditioning. If Yik gang wasnt important WCK wouldnt include Hei Gung that ALSO works Tendon Devlopment - as thats how much importance we place on it.
Nothing needs to be solved about Yik kang. It is well preserved in the YKS system as passed down by Sum Nung.
Once a framework has been ingrained, you gradualy shift the training twords Yee and Chi. ------
How to cultivate Yee and Chi? the process, without that again, it is mind speculation which has no meaning but lots of words.
+++Everything in every thread ever posted is lots of words and nothing else. The process of cultivation Possibly is Localized evolution that only 1 or 2 branchs focused on, as most older branchs do not include that type of training.
This follows the framework that White Crane trains. From external to internal. Both being part of the big picture and needed for the proper development, IMO------
So, what is the training of White Crane? what is the different between the eating crane, the older post 1800 crane, the humming crane....etc. Which is internal which is external? even Crane, Yes, Crane has evolved into Hard or soft system after 1800.
So, which is which?
+++Which?? Of cource the branchs that are most related to Wing Chun. The Yong Chun County White Crane system. 2 Main branchs. Pang/Siu and Lee Kong. They both move from External to Internal.
The later systems have a wide variation base ranging from Hard to soft, from long range to short range.
The temple of the body must be strengthened. Tendons need to be changed. Skeletal system must learn to align and muslces must allow to settle and relax. This gives a Framework for the Chi To be built up in, that can handle the higher voltage and energy.-------
Great idea but how?
+++?!?! Via proper training? Which can only be passed down by someone else who has trained it.
The most screw up today IMHHHHHO is that we are comparing posture not the Process of training. and the key about INternal and external is in the Process of training not in the posture.
+++Who is doing this??
and
we have lost the training Process, but evolve with different type of application from Karate Side Kick adding into CK in the 60's to BJJ application added in the 90's. But we lost the training process or the body/mind/breathing conditioning core part of the art since early 1900. IMHO
+++That remains to be seen, as the ancestral systems dont support this, and its seems more like a Localized evolution.
Localized EVolution is a must and right. However, do we still do WCK? that is a quesition we could search into.
+++Yes. And many cross over the line of demarcation and , imo , no longer do WCK, but do JKD.
IMHO, lets face it in the past 60 years, WCK is importing lots of great application and evolve great in the applications of the art. However, do we still have the process for training that we could trace to answer the question either it is external or internal? That we all know and have to admit, today, WCK is an external art in general.
+++Depends of referance point. To me, yes we still have the training. My idea of training is intact in Kulo, Lo Kwai, Cheung Bo, MGW, and YKS families. But my idea of training are differant to yours. I agree we need to be more "Natural". I agree we need to make sure to keep Chi, Breath and Mind work. But that isnt the entire scope of the WCK process, its only a part of it.
B
"i see thy nose, but not what dog to feed it to" othello
Registered User
Matrix,
Thank you for your excellent caring post.
See, I am dont intend to change anyone or convince anyone or ...
What I am trying is to communicate as much as I can about the stuffs from the past which we today has missed. Those things could be good bad perfect imperfect. I am just playing a messenger so that those who is interest could have a direction to search into.
peace
Registered User
++++True. And hopefully in your above statement you were not assumeing what i have or havnt trained. As i am probably one of the only people here posting who has legitamelty trained the Basic Sup Yee Zhuang methods.
what do you mean by basic sup yee zhuang methods? Does GM Fu help you to activate your medirians
+++You tread on dangerous ground in terms of words. Who defines what is internal?? Who is the judge? Who chooses the judge ? Who states 8 special meridians = Intenal ? Who states just Du and Ren activated with Dan Tien build up = internal? Who states Internal is about Breath? Who states Internal is about Chi?? Who states its none of these? or all of these?? Who states its about Posture for the internal?? Who is right ? Who is wrong ? And who is set up as Judge?? Many classics.-------
since you have train in Emei 12 zhuang, if my memory serve, all of your above question had been answered by late Dr. Chow's writing, Dr Chow is the lineage holder of Emei 12 zhuang, . IMHO, I dont see any dangerous ground at all since Dr. Chow writing deal with even advance mind/body/qi activation and handling then these basic of the basic.
+++How would one know that 8 special need to be activated, if one hasnt activated them? As they would be just speculating or taking someone elses word for it. So you have done this??....
I dont say this to be contrary - as you know i have great respect for you, but to me its just as much speculation as anyone else. And either one trains and than will gradualy come to understand or one is simply talking.
Well, there migh be three answer on how would one know. IMHO,
1, there are plenty of books/writing on the 8 special channel which is not popular or known in the west. So, those who could read the classical chinese be able to learn about these stuffs, what it is likely, what it is not likely, and have a clear picture what is happening. ( while we in the west have no clue about them but speculate or and resist the technology with our clueless logical speculation)
2, one has a sifu who is experience and know about those stuffs so one could learn about them.
3, one has attained the activation.
So, those who are in the above 3 catagory will know even thier clarity are different. but those have no clue will not know. IMHO.
as for which one of the above or none of the above is me.
That I hope somedays when you attain your Emei 12 zhuang level 3 (there are many level....) training then do an assesment on me and tell the public my original face.
See, I dont expect you to respect me. I am happy that you see what reality is somedays. may be I am just a buls****er. hahaha
BTW. I am using biofeedback machine, so, no ancestors will know what the heck is that. hahahaha
This is a problem. do we know what are those parents are? do we have indepth knowledge via experience? if not then we dont know.
+++I agree. See above. And my statments are made based on Real time experiance with both as well as 20 years in WCK.
That is what i have been doing for the last 2 years. Experianceing and learning about White Crane and Emie systems and training basics so i can understand the differance between them both and WCK .
Im also starting to make regular trips to learn the entire 12 jong system, while im visiting my YKS sifu. ----------------
IMHO, thus, I have heard, years doesnt mean much but STATE of the attainment is the key.
as the WCK saying said " learning has no senior or junior, whoever has mastering the subject is the teacher."
I could learn from you too if your attain STATE is more advance then me.
But the question should be also asked of yourself and everyone.
Have you studied both formaly?? Have you learned Emie from Grandmaster Fu or a Student? Or someone who went to a seminar once?? or from a book??
if not, its mind spectulation.------
Good question and great idea and excellent challenge.
Thank you. I am certainly very happy from your question, that shows me your wings are grow now.
am I the person who is first to give out the direction about Emei 12 zhuang and White Crane fusion ... based on my mind speculation?
or you have known them before me? In that case, that is great.
but you see, I dont go for the path of name droping, State attainment is my preference. One could learn from Miu Shun himself, but if one doestn realized and attain the state. It doesnt mean much at all. IMHHHHO.
as if I do mind speculation? may be and always.
but it is simple to get to the facts, anyone (you could be one of them since you know emeil 12 zhuang now. ) who has equal or more advance state then me will be able to read my state via my posting . an I welcome for them to critics me based on my writing. I might be full of it. hahahaha.
as for writing and instruction, well, how many version of Emei writing do you think there is beside Gm Fu's seminal or book? I happen to have collect a few version from Gm Fu's sifu generations.... which is not translate into englished yet.
as formal training, isnt that anyone who formaly study WCK from the ancient tradition by default has the key elements of its parents?
Last edited by Hendrik; 02-25-2007 at 09:37 AM.
Registered User
Thanks for sharing.
Just to clarify what I am saying about Natural.
Thus, I have heard, Natural is about
it is about return to Natural state or let go let God or Dao Mimic Nature, instead of more "Natural", for in that state the mind/qi/breathing/body take care of itself.
it is also called "alchemy the Shen to return to the emptiness."
peace
Last edited by Hendrik; 02-24-2007 at 10:37 PM.
Registered User
seems that my reply being trunkate. missing a big part of them......
That was Zen, this is Tao
Hendrik,
I can see what you are trying to communicate, and appreciate that. Just remember that communication is a two way street. The other person must be open to receiving what you are sending. They have their own agenda.
Unfortunately, some already have made up their minds about how things are in their view of the world. Nothing you can say will change that. I agree with you that there are some ancient truths that are at risk of being lost, but you must share them those who are open to them. As the idiom says "retain when it comes, send away when it goes".
Peace,
Bill
'Talk is cheap because there is an excess of supply over demand'
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