Wing Chun - development of a martial art

[Knifefighter]

YAWN!!!!!Give us something new...... pretty please people

OK, here’s something new. It’s a way you can use a more scientific approach to determining how effective your training is towards being able to apply it in a fighting environment (as compared to Hendrick’s measurements, which are measurements of physiological responses, rather than fighting).

Video yourself and/or your students in all of their various training modes. Next record yourself and/or them while going full-contact, without stopping and starting over if the encounter goes to the clinch or to the ground.

After you have done this, analyze the movements from both sessions and break them down into percentages in which the sparring/fighting looks like the training movements. This will give you an effective measure of the percentage of effectiveness of your training.

This would be a great way to show substantiation of the effeciveness of your training and shut up the naysayers.... However, I'm betting you would find the percentage of transfer between training and fighting would be quite low.

[Hendrik]

OK, here’s something new. It’s a way you can use a more scientific approach to determining how effective your training is towards being able to apply it in a fighting environment (as compared to Hendrick’s measurements, which are measurements of physiological responses, rather than fighting).

Video yourself and/or your students in all of their various training modes. Next record yourself and/or them while going full-contact, without stopping and starting over if the encounter goes to the clinch or to the ground.

After you have done this, analyze the movements from both sessions and break them down into percentages in which the sparring/fighting looks like the training movements. This will give you an effective measure of the percentage of effectiveness of your training.

This would be a great way to show substantiation of the effeciveness of your training and shut up the naysayers.... However, I'm betting you would find the percentage of transfer between training and fighting would be quite low.

one never step on the same current flow of water twice. every instant one's opponents changes.

how could one use the past to predict the future beside create lots of fear based prediction?

could one enter into the state at will ? Chance is one doesnt even aware of how to handle oneself in mind and body.

if not the rest doesnt matter. doesnt mean they are not important, but one doesnt have the tikect to enter. so what use ?


The ancient chinese said, how could one mark the location on board the boat where one drop the sword into the lake; and expect to find the sword after the boat coasting in shallow water of the lake?

[Knifefighter]

one never step on the same current flow of water twice. every instant one's opponents changes.

how could one use the past to predict the future beside create lots of fear based prediction?

could one enter into the state at will ? Chance is one doesnt even aware of how to handle oneself in mind and body.

if not the rest doesnt matter. doesnt mean they are not important, but one doesnt have the tikect to enter. so what use ?


The ancient chinese said, how could one mark the location on board the boat where one drop the sword into the lake; and expect to find the sword after the boat coasting in shallow water of the lake?

Part of science is measuring many data points. From there statistical analysis is used to help weed out random variation. This helps to control for the variations in "one's opponents changes".

Your method measures physiological states which may or may not have anything to do with fighting ability. My method measures fighting which is closely related to fighting ability.

The ticket to enter is not entering into the state. The ticket to enter is in the doing (in the case of fighting, it is fighting). I doubt you have the ticket to enter, although you like to believe you do.

[drleungjohn]

While I agree with both Hendrik and Knifefighter(Dale ?)

The thing is your training "should" look like it comes out in fighting-and since video is a decent way to record and document things it's a viable solution


Does your training come out in your fighting and free sparring?

Do we see Pak da or Lop da in your fighting?
Do we see angle and vector in your attacks and defense?

Can we be honest,even alone in fornt of the tv when we watch?

[Hendrik]

Your method measures physiological states which may or may not have anything to do with fighting ability. -------


Nope, it is a matter of direct or indirect. it is not a matter of may or may not have to do.

One got to know one's car engine before one race.




My method measures fighting which is closely related to fighting ability. -----


sure, that is your believe.

however, do you, could you even do exactly the same Sparing twice? how about tape yourself doing the set, and see for yourself could you even do the same set exactly twice?

If not, what is the reality tell you?





The ticket to enter is not entering into the state. The ticket to enter is in the doing (in the case of fighting, it is fighting). I doubt you have the ticket to enter, although you like to believe you do.---------



IMHO
you could have all kind of doubt to speculate but that is your thinking not about reality.


1, could you switch state? yes or no? if not then how could you handle pressure and preserve the awareness under pressure?

do you react or response? if you could not switch state then you are reacting. if you are reacting then what is the point of using the video tape? for no matter what you think while watching the video you couldnt do most in real time because your reaction is going to prevent you from responding the way you would like anyway.

if you think you could then use the biofeedback mechine to verify your response handling ability.

2, in 1970's, while I was involve in the Kyokushin and SEA Loitoi. at that time people has already use filming trying to understand thier oponents and break the opponents technics. particulary studying Thai boxing match thinking they could prepare to defeat Thai Boxer that way, and who were those who could take advantages of the filming. only those who have excellent handling or those who have develop great awareness of thier motion, or those who capable to switch state on mind and body.

so back to square one, what is your engine performance? know that before talking about racing.



believe?
I had paticipate in kyokushin open, have saw people use the filming as aids, and I am using HRV and EEG for training.

So, in my experience, until one could switch state, video taping is not going to help much.

Since I have experience both I know. How about you? have you try HRV and EEG?

[Hendrik]

While I agree with both Hendrik and Knifefighter(Dale ?)

The thing is your training "should" look like it comes out in fighting-and since video is a decent way to record and document things it's a viable solution


Does your training come out in your fighting and free sparring?

Do we see Pak da or Lop da in your fighting?
Do we see angle and vector in your attacks and defense?

Can we be honest,even alone in fornt of the tv when we watch?

IMHO,

if one dont have a certain level of handling on the physiological states.
one's response is mainly close to reaction and not aimed response.

[leejunfan]

sing along with me everyone....

"Here we go round te merry go round... merry go round... merry go round... here we go round the merry go round and it will never END!!!!!"

[t_niehoff]

Hey Terence,

It seems like you got the humor in my post despite my not using the smilies. That's all that was meant by my post... humor.

You are preaching to the choir. How do I "know", because I cross-train and I see the same evidence that you or anyone else can see. It's all right there in the results.

Dude, it's all good.

As you so rightly point out, it really comes down to experience. The only way to measure or see results in a fighting method is to fight. That's it. People who do that will know if their training is working, how well it is working, where their development is lacking, etc. Most importantly, with experience comes an appreciation for the demands of the fight, what really goes on, etc. And a person can't begin training to meet those demands, to deal with what really goes on, etc. until they appreciate the problems they will really encounter.

[Knifefighter]

sing along with me everyone....

"Here we go round te merry go round... merry go round... merry go round... here we go round the merry go round and it will never END!!!!!"

Translation: "You will never see any video of me or my students fighting or sparring full contact compared to that of our training... mainly because the fighting/sparring part never happens."

[Knifefighter]

2, in 1970's, while I was involve in the Kyokushin and SEA Loitoi.

LOL @ the last time having fought being 30 years ago, and, even then, with no strikes to the head. The further someone is from fighting, the more he thinks he knows, but the less he really knows.

[leejunfan]

Translation: "You will never see any video of me or my students fighting or sparring full contact compared to that of our training... mainly because the fighting/sparring part never happens."

hee hee hee.... he don't know me vewy well do he?

question.... can we see video of YOU doing what you propose? That would be nice.

[Knifefighter]

hee hee hee.... he don't know me vewy well do he?

question.... can we see video of YOU doing what you propose? That would be nice.

I've already posted clips of a variety of my stuff... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwLFeIqjQ3Q)... everything I do looks like standard MMA boxing, kickboxing, grappling and groundfighting.

You can look at clips of training in any of these disciplines and compare them to full contact fighting and see how similar the movement patterns in training and fighting are.

You are proposing that your movement patterns in fighting are the same as those in your training. I've seen your training clips... now lets' see the fighting part.

[Hendrik]

LOL @ the last time having fought being 30 years ago, and, even then, with no strikes to the head. The further someone is from fighting, the more he thinks he knows, but the less he really knows.

No strikes to the head?
is round horse kick or axe drop kick or knee kicks to the head for Ko consider a strike?


I rest my case here because it is about EGO now. hahaha

and BTW, is this still a Wing Chun discussion?

[leejunfan]

knifefighter honestly.... do you think I or anyone here is seeking your approval?

I've already posted clips of a variety of my stuff... everything I do looks like standard MMA boxing, kickboxing, grappling and groundfighting.

There are clips of you sparring/fighting? Please show them. Training drills don't count and PLEASE don't use other poeple to back up YOUR claims like the Gracies or other MMA'ers. Let's see YOU in action thanks I personally would really like to see that as it inspires me. Honstly... no BS.... I love that stuff.

knifefighter....... my original "merry go round" joke had nothing to do with fighting and everything to do with pointing out the FACT that you and Terrence and the others willing to play keep going back and fourth and getting no where. If you really want to make better use of your time in "cleansing" the martial arts then just show it in your actions. Visit them..... meet face to face.... Have good talks, train together, spar together. But all this internet "cyber tough guy" crap is getting old FAST!

I just find it humorous that this thread is 12 pages of the same thing...over and over

[Knifefighter]

There are clips of you sparring/fighting? Please show them. Training drills don't count and PLEASE don't use other poeple to back up YOUR claims like the Gracies or other MMA'ers. Let's see YOU in action thanks

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwLFeIqjQ3Q)

OK, your turn.