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Thread: How the current war in Iraq goes against the spirit and concepts of Jing Mo

  1. #1
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    How the current war in Iraq goes against the spirit and concepts of Jing Mo

    First of all, I want to emphasize that these are my personal opinions and not the official statements of my Jing Mo School or any of the other branches throughout the world. I haven’t even really discussed any of this stuff with my sifu or any of my kung fu brothers, although I know some of them probably have similar views.
    Let me begin by saying that I believe most of the people in our armed forces are good folks who have a sense of honor, respect, and loyalty that, sadly, isn’t present within the leaders who have been dictating foreign policy in the The United States recently. Furthermore, I’ve had two grandfathers and a few other relatives who served this country well during at least two major wars throughout its history. I’ve also had quite a few friends who have served in the armed forces. I’m definitely NOT anti-military.
    That being said, let me explain my rather bold proclamation at the beginning of this thread.

    Let me start with Jing Mo’s concepts:

    1. Jing Mo concept of Man:
    To achieve all around ability through moral, intellectual, and physical training

    Morally I feel the war is wrong because it was no mystery that countless thousands of innocent Iraqis were going to die because of a U.S. led invasion. Also, the reasons were suspect. With Iraq sitting on top of 17% of the world’s remaining oil reserves and billions of dollars being funneled straight into the pockets of the vice president and his cronies (via Halliburton) one has to suspect there were ulterior motives for the invasion. If one were to intellectually work all this out, the reasons for the invasion are clear: greed and power. I suppose what I’m trying to say here is that these conclusions were due, in large part, to my moral, intellectual, and physical training.

    2. Jing Mo concept of Character:
    Respect for others and self respect through justice and integrity

    There hasn’t even been enough respect for Iraqi civilians to do any sort of accurate body count. The U.S. military’s policy towards keeping track of civilian casualties can be summed up by a statement by General Tommy Franks in Afghanistan: “We don’t do body counts.” The latest estimates by the esteemed medical journal, The Lancet? A shocking 655,000 deaths were estimated to have occurred by the end of last year. Where’s the justice for all of those dead men, women, and children? Where's the integrity of the military? I wouldn’t be able to respect myself for going along with this war.

    3. Jing Mo concept of Caring:
    Humanity and equality through honesty and frankness

    I’ve talked to a marine who confirmed to me that they were told to “shoot anything that moved,” by their superiors in the opening stages of the war. With those words ringing in their ears, they were flung into an uncertain conflict in which any vehicle was a potential bomb, any civilian was a potential enemy combatant, and at any moment they could be headed back home in a box. After the initial stages of the war, countless Iraqis were left with no electricity, no water, no jobs, and no security for years (something that was promised to them along with freedom, liberty, equality and whatever other lofty ideal the Administration could think up). The U.S. military also regularly uses rounds with depleted uranium in them. The uranium dust from these rounds can have an extremely debilitating affect on anyone who breaths it in. Equality? Honesty? Frankness? Caring?? I think not.

    4. Jing Mo concept of Words and Deeds:
    A person's dealings are judged by his words and deeds

    We were told by the administration that Iraq had the ability to attack us with chemical, biological, and/or nuclear weapons. Even though Hans Blix, after a long, laborious search, had confirmed there were no WMD’s in Iraq, Colin Powell, Condoleeza, Bush, Cheney, and friends used false evidence (Nigerian uranium, suspect radio transmissions), and a whole lot of manufactured fear to lead this country into a conflict that seemingly has no end. Shady dealings I'd say.

    5. Jing Mo concept of Trustworthiness:
    To keep every pledge and promise

    Besides the above mentioned promises of electricity, water, jobs, and security for the Iraqis (something we are responsible for according to the Geneva Convention), everyone was promised that the war would be over quickly and that the Iraqi people would greet us as liberators. Who can forget GW in his flight suit on the USS Lincoln with that banner proclaiming “Mission Accomplished.” They promised everyone that all was well and that we were not going to get caught up in another quagmire like we were in Vietnam. The U.S. and the world would be happier and more secure than it has ever been. Wow!! Were they mistaken!! They lied about the WMD’S, they lied about their motives, and they lied when they assured the world it was going to be quick and painless.

    6. Jing Mo concept of Punctuality:
    To be punctual in appointment with no apology

    George W. Bush and friends had to be punctual with one thing: ending the war. Like I said previously, they promised us that the war was pretty much “over.” Whether it was a question of more troops, better diplomacy, or a better understanding of the Iraqi people and their needs and desires, they have utterly failed. Of course, we should never have gone down this sad and unfortunate road to begin with. But, since they promised us a swift and painless victory, they might as well have delivered. Sadly, they haven’t.

    7. Jing Mo concept of Justice:
    To uphold justice impartially

    Can anyone guess what I’m going to talk about next? Yep, you guessed it, Abu Ghraib. What happened at Abu Ghraib is not an isolated phenomenon. That was just one prison in Iraq. One can only speculate what it must be like in the 32 other prisons/torture centers across Iraq (I've read about things I can't even say here). The fact that most of the individuals incarcerated at prisons like Abu Ghraib were and are innocent (the U.S. Army has even admitted), is indicative of an atmosphere of prejudice against Arabs and Persians within the United States and it’s military. I hate to say this but it seems as though racism often plays a part in American foreign policy. Every “other” racial group from the Native Americans to almost every Asian denomination has known American firepower. Since time immemorial Arabic and Persian people have always been seen as enemies of the West. They've always been characterized as "crazy and fanatical." Just look at American movies and TV shows. This country hasn’t been just and impartial with the Iraqi people.

    8. Jing Mo concept of Service:
    To render service with honor

    I know that many military personal have the best of intentions when it comes to serving this country. But when the smoke clears and the rest of the world, which is very critical of this country’s actions post 911, holds us accountable for allowing this country’s leadership to fall in the hands of tyrants and for going along with their madness, what will you say? What will you be able to tell your kids? There comes a time when one has to ask whether or not they are engaged in an honorable fight. Whether or not they are fighting for what’s right and just, or blindly following the orders of selfish and dishonorable men. No, I don’t believe George Bush, D!ck Cheney or any of their cohorts to be honorable men. I feel that it is a disgrace to our armed forces that they are calling the shots and deciding peoples fates. Why should anyone give them any credence at all when it comes to how we should fight a war? There has never been any “service with honor” rendered by these armchair warriors during actual combat, so why are they commanding the military? And why would anyone serve them for any other reason?

    9. Jing Mo concept of Welfare:
    To give and not to take

    Once again, how can it be argued by anybody that this country is currently looking out for the welfare of the Iraqi people, when hundreds of thousands of them have been killed? They WERE better off under Saddam. But then again, it’s easy to see how their welfare could be overlooked when one sees how the welfare of our own troops is taken for granted. Many of our troops are headed for their third tour of duty and many of them are in the National Guard. I remember talking to a marine a couple of years ago about how under equipped our Guardsman were (some police departments across the country were even donating their Kevlar vests for these guys), and he was telling me that his own unit was sourly lacking in essential equipment. And what is this whole conflict for? So American oil companies can ransack the country of it’s oil, of course. Whose welfare is all of this really about?

    10. Jing Mo concept of Fraternity:
    To love others as you love yourself and your own family.

    At this point, it may seem redundant to point out how much of a lack of love there is in the Middle East right now. But I think this concept can be clarified as having a Universal Love for all others no matter what color, creed, or religious denomination they may be from. When it comes to Iraq, there is obviously a serious lack of Universal Love; from all parties involved. Though I can’t help but be especially disappointed in my own government. The U.S. government proved itself to be a brutal, hegemonic power in the world after the invasion of Iraq. It certainly showed that our leaders don’t “love others as they love themselves.”

    Jing Mo’s three virtues:
    WISDOM: Man of Wisdom cannot be mislead
    BENEVOLANCE: Man of Benevolence has no worry
    COURAGE: Man of Courage has no fear

    Lastly, I think it’s worth mentioning that the three virtues have helped me to get a clear perspective on the whole conflict. Anyone who is wise and benevolent can see that initiating a brutal war against the Iraqi people was wrong and we need more courageous people to openly say so.
    Last edited by Siu Lum Fighter; 02-27-2007 at 12:13 AM. Reason: punctuation
    The three components of combat are 1) Speed, 2) Guts and 3) Techniques. All three components must go hand in hand. One component cannot survive without the others." (WJM - June 14, 1974)

  2. #2
    ur right
    however at least we got something for the war
    invading a country for one bearded guy hmmm ..........

    now oil, i hear thats worth alot of money these days

    hahhhahahah lmao


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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin Wookie View Post
    5. The reason you know you're wrong: I'm John Takeshi, and I said so, beeyotch.

  3. #3
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    Not that I support the war in Iraq but

    I don't think the Bush admin (or any other admin) is bound by "jing mo" concepts. If my memory serves me right in the 2004 election it said "Republican" not "Jing Mo"
    Bless you

  4. #4
    The Jing Mo organization would have really been disappointed in me if I were the Commander-in-Chief. After we destroyed their military I would have taken the spoils (their oil) and left them to clean up their own mess. Of course this is before I would have rendered Iran militarilly incapable of defending themselves and blowing up the nuclear plant that they are building. But I am not very nice.
    The US is waaaaay to nice to its enemies.

  5. #5
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    The US is waaaaay to nice to its enemies.
    True words.

    Beatniks keep harping on the violence of the war yet they have no idea what it would be like if the US really wanted to do the things that existed in there warped conspiracy theories.

    The way America handles itself in wartime is very humane considering what we can do if we wanted.

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    The US creates it's own enemies, so it should be nice to them. lol
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Jack II View Post
    The way America handles itself in wartime is very humane considering what we can do if we wanted.
    The quiet, science-fiction reading person in my brain often wonders how long any "insurgents" would stand up to us if we prosecuted this, or any, war to its fullest extent, unencumbered by concerns like "law of war" and "rules of engagement."

    We are technologically the most advanced fighting force on the planet. The simple fact that we are still futzing around in Iraq is testament to our sense of self-control. The actions of a very, very few Soldiers do not dictate the behavior of the forces at large (regardless of what the media would have you believe).

    That having been said, what kind of fight would the insurgents put up if we reduced every building to rubble, executed, on the spot, any "insurgent" we found in the course of a day's work, and really did torture (and I mean more than scaring someone with dogs and blindfolds) the prisoners we took in order to get the information we needed to end the fight...

    I'm reminded of the opening chapter of Heinlein's Starship Troopers, where the Mobile Infantry, in their powered suits, essentially level a city just to let the aliens know what more could have happened had the M.I. wanted to get really nasty...
    Matt Stone

  8. #8
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    duuuude. thats a book? thats like one of my favorite movies ever.

    whats the name of the book?

    "better to reside in hell knowing the truth than to be blissfully ignorant in heaven."

    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."- Doug Adams

    I dare you to make less sense!

    "Freeze?! You know if i drop the tooth fairy i'm only gettin' started mother****er!"

    "It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuXnDajenariht View Post
    duuuude. thats a book? thats like one of my favorite movies ever.

    whats the name of the book?
    Ummm...

    "Starship Troopers."

    It's not an action book... Very little "shoot-'em-up" goes on. It's the story of Juan Rico's evolution from a private in boot camp, through earning his sergeant's stripes, on into officer candidate school. Interesting book, nonetheless...
    Matt Stone

  10. #10
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    originally posted by Black Jack II
    The way America handles itself in wartime is very humane considering what we can do if we wanted.
    Read this...
    http://dwb.sacbee.com/content/opinio...10241546c.html
    and view these...
    http://dahrjamailiraq.com/gallery/vi...album28&page=1
    hmmm...I can't help but wonder what country we might be compared to if we were just a little less humane? Nazi Germany perhaps?!?
    originally posted by YiLiQuan1
    That having been said, what kind of fight would the insurgents put up if we reduced every building to rubble, executed, on the spot, any "insurgent" we found in the course of a day's work, and really did torture (and I mean more than scaring someone with dogs and blindfolds) the prisoners we took in order to get the information we needed to end the fight...
    What you don't seem to realize is that we've created a whole country of "insurgents" by actually doing much of what you've described. Except that, more often than not, the prisoners we take are innocent of any wrong doing...
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...211374,00.html
    and in case you didn't notice those dead people in the Abu Ghraib photos, the U.S. is doing far more than just scaring people with blindfolds and dogs. White House council John Yoo has advocated raping children in front of their parents, and it's been alleged (and I believe there are some videos to prove this) that women and children have been, and are, raped and sodomized in prisons all across the country. Now that's about as horrible as you can get. One step below cutting off limbs and brutally slaying people (which the U.S. military also does).
    http://www.infowars.com/print/iraq/i...re_archive.htm
    Last edited by Siu Lum Fighter; 02-21-2007 at 05:00 AM.
    The three components of combat are 1) Speed, 2) Guts and 3) Techniques. All three components must go hand in hand. One component cannot survive without the others." (WJM - June 14, 1974)

  11. #11
    i support siu lum fighter completely here

    i have seen many things where us soldiers arte pictured sodomising iraqi women
    and these arent isolated accounts either
    look up iraq on youtube and u can find them
    the us could do alot more but that doesnt make what its doing now ok

    if u shoot someone in the leg it doesnt make it ok simply because you let him live
    there are only masters where there are slaves

    www.myspace.com/chenzhenfromjingwu



    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin Wookie View Post
    5. The reason you know you're wrong: I'm John Takeshi, and I said so, beeyotch.

  12. #12
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    I don't deal in forum debates with far left cretins who bring up the guardian newspaper or infowars. Using those sources as anything is bonafide squirrely, talk about an agenda, throwing out pictures of American hating dead muslims doesn't do much for me either. Its just another typical hyperinflation mannerism of fake emotion that the left spits out as a sign of trying to showcase any intelligence.

    Nazi Germany...lmao, to even write that shows you don't have a clue to stand on. It's to early in the morning for this kind of dumbf@ckery.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Jack II View Post
    I don't deal in forum debates with far left cretins who bring up the guardian newspaper or infowars. Using those sources as anything is bonafide squirrely, talk about an agenda, throwing out pictures of American hating dead muslims doesn't do much for me either. Its just another typical hyperinflation mannerism of fake emotion that the left spits out as a sign of trying to showcase any intelligence.

    Nazi Germany...lmao, to even write that shows you don't have a clue to stand on. It's to early in the morning for this kind of dumbf@ckery.

    A war based on faulty intelligence, the CIA warning the intelligence was wrong, half of the high level CIA officials resigning, Cheney and Rumsfeld's influance in the Pentagon and Military industrial complex, the resignation of Colin Powell, the lack of weapons of mass destruction, the fact that Al-Quida flourishes in Iraq AFTER the Iraq invasion, the fact that the middle east is now more radical, more unstable, and it is easier for terrorists to attack Americans (yes our troops are Americans)


    Are you ignorant of all this, or is it "liberal cretin" propaganda. Stupid.
    Bless you

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Jack II View Post
    Nazi Germany...lmao, to even write that shows you don't have a clue to stand on. It's to early in the morning for this kind of dumbf@ckery.
    I guess you don't even know that there are people on this board who don't have the same timeline as you do

  15. #15
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    Hey dumbsh!t,

    It was in reference to where I am located. Try again.

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