How the current war in Iraq goes against the spirit and concepts of Jing Mo

[Shaolin Wookie]

7) You, me and no one here are the final arbiter of what is moral or immoral! Get used to it!

That's kind of a declaration of what's right and wrong, isn't it? You must have been a regular on the Juna thread, right?

10) The anger and hostility on this thread is not helping the spread of peace and harmony in the world. If you want to stop wars, violence and immorality eliminate narrow mindedness, fear, anger, hate, and violence in your own life first. Try setting an example to others by being understanding of their views. Understanding does not mean you necessarily approve of their views, but all opinions have reasons for them. If you have understanding you will develop compassion which will help you to begin to live a quiet, peaceful and harmonious life. This will help to change your immediate environment and participate in bringing more peace and harmony to the world.

I figure if I can kill everyone in opposition to myself, I'll get to the point where there is peace and harmony, as I see it, anyways.

12) Most people won't understand or agree with a thing I am saying here, but that is why they should hear it.

What in high hell are you saying?

11) "The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." - Herbert Sebastian Agar[/QUOTE]

I've never done a box set, and Eddie's full of it if he says otherwise. -Sammy Hagar, the illegitimate son of H.S. Agar

Man, that's profound......

[Shaolin Wookie]

Jing Mo concept of Fraternity:
To love others as you love yourself and your own family.

Doesn't that kind of justify the gay nude Iraqi dry humping pics from Abu Ass-Grab Prison?

[Hishaam]

Hi Hishaam,

I do not assume it "cannot" be fathomed, but that it won't be fathomed, There is a difference. It is not any more elitist than your assumption that my comment was elitist. I make my comments based upon experience. That is all any of us can do. I tried to make a comment that was not an absolute statement because there are always exceptions to the rule. Therefore, if it does not apply to you then it was meant for you.

It was not my intention to make positive or negative statements. I was asked to give some enlightenment and I did. Take what you like and leave the rest.

No offense taken on my part.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Hishaam]

Jing Mo concept of Fraternity:
To love others as you love yourself and your own family.

Doesn't that kind of justify the gay nude Iraqi dry humping pics from Abu Ass-Grab Prison?

Dude although i don't speak to the spirits anymore but i'would ve loved a taste of what you're smoking

[Shaolin Wookie]

Ay....keemosabi.....

Don't break the cypha!!!

[Siu Lum Fighter]

originally posted by Scott R. Brown
4) Moral and immoral in this discussion are value judgments based upon what one side or the other accepts as facts. Facts are not universally agreed upon by anyone, anywhere at anytime in history! Get used to it! That is why different conclusions are arrived at as to the morality and immorality of the war. One group views the war as eliminating evil and freeing the oppressed, the other views the war as selfish and hurting innocent people. They arrive at different conclusions because they are starting from different core premises!

So are you saying there shouldn't be a debate at all? If you ran into someone who believed the world was flat, would you not contest their belief at all just because they are starting from a different core premise? Mine and many other peoples views on the morality of the war are based on generally accepted facts. If FOX all of a sudden makes up there own "facts," should we stand down and not call them on it because the facts aren't universally agreed upon? Even though their propaganda influences people to go along with a destructive and costly war?

originally posted by Black Jack II
Dude, you are using as a source of reference a conservative smear site which states that the United States Government practices devil whorship in the woods of California.

Of course, you're going to take that one topic on his site and attempt to completely destroy any credibility he might have. But if you want to talk about the legitamacy of his claims without immediately going, "that's looney!! yet another crazy conspiracy theorist!!," the fact is many high powered political leaders do go to a place in northern California called The Bohemian Grove and engage in bizarre rituals. There is not only footage to prove it, but it's admitted by some of our own politicians and there are pictures of many of our former presidents hanging out there. Now, whether or not you want to say the rituals caught on film are a part of some light hearted, fun, fraternity-like party or some sort of dark masonic congregation can still be debated. But what can't be refuted is that there is testimony and some evidence that suggests our leaders are actually making policy there just like CEO's on a golf course might, and that's why it's significant.

[SaintSage]

The Freemasons are a "light hearted, fun, fraternity." Were you trying to imply otherwise?

[Siu Lum Fighter]

Sorry,

You're right, for the most part they are. But you have to wonder about some, seemingly dark, masonic-like fraternities like Skull and Bones who have the symbol of the deaths head as their signature. It's a fact that both George W. Bush and John Kerry are both members of that, admittedly secret organization, and so are many prominent members of our government. I think the people who get caught up in right wing vs. left wing, liberal vs. conservative, Republicans vs. Democrats are not able to see that, at the core, it's really all just one party.

[Black Jack II]

Of course, you're going to take that one topic on his site and attempt to completely destroy any credibility he might have

.

Your kidding right dude? That is a HUGE nonsense topic but its not the only one and you know it. Who are you kidding, look at that nutty site and you see 9/11 junk, FEMA takeover junk, microimplants.......

It's not as bad as David Icke but for the love of f@ck its close enough and no way should anyone say that site has ANY real cred.

btw, I know about the grove and skull and bones, plus I am also a traveling man myself but I do my own research and I don't cander to the fun but bizzare conspiracy claims. The skull and bones symbol is a Totenkopf and it just means deaths head in German where the origins of the lodge come from.

[Siu Lum Fighter]

Well, it seems as though you know a bit more about all of this stuff than I thought. Regarding the deaths head: I was wondering what your theory is on why W's fraternity at Yale are using the same symbol or Totenkopf that the SS used during WWII?

[SaintSage]

Thank you, though. I just don't like seeing good men defamed, so I get a little jumpy at the "Masonry is a Satanic cult" thing. Just making sure you knew better!

There are Masons out there who do things they probably shouldn't, but that's because they are people, not Masons.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Scott, come on. i mean really. you know as well as i do that credible facts are based on empirical evidence. whether you want to believe a fact or not doesn't take away from its proven basis in reality. someone who makes or creates their own "facts" in opposition to actual fact is either ignorant or delusional. something can either be proven or disproven, and what we called facts are proven to be true after vigorous testing and investigation. im the first to agree that biased opinions dont count. but you mislabel all of the comments made as such. now if you wanna put your facts against everyone elses thats fine but to say no one has any say so in the matter is BS.

what i basically take from your statement is that the so called facts the President used as a justification for the war in the first place are the only ones that matter, and that everyone else should keep their mouth shut when trying to call him on his proven lies. thinking you dont have the right to question your elected officials decisions is foolish in my opinion

[FuXnDajenariht]

Scott wrote: 5) Innocent people always get hurt in wars! Innocent people get hurt all the time in life. It isn't fair, it isn't right, but it cannot be avoided. Get used to it!

people are angry because the war in Iraq and the loss of hundreds of thousands of innocent lives was and is competely unnecessary in relation to the actual war on terrorism. like i said before, Britain proved that you can thwart terrorism with plain old good policework. the reasons for American troops being in Iraq have been factually proven to be fabricated. former and current CIA agents have testified to the fact the the white house manipulated intelligence on WMD's to fit its agenda. its been factually proven that the war in Iraq has increased acts of terrorism and has increased the recruitment rates for terrorist groups. those are just a few reasons that the civilian casualties in Iraq are unacceptable to the majority of the global community and the American public. do i even need to mention the wasting of American lives? its a failed, unnecessarily mismanaged war with no clear agenda, no actual progress but seemingly daily regression, no clear end in sight and basically no legitimate reason for it existing.


Scott wrote: 8) One man's atrocity is another man's heroic action! Get used to it!

Get used to it? riiiiight. A fair amount of Arabs believe 9/11 was an act of heroism. you believe that no one is allowed to make a judgement call on that? according to your logic.....

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi FuXnDajenariht,

You are forming your opinion based upon what you accept as fact and either ignoring contradicting facts, refusing to consider the conflicting facts, or not informing yourself with other facts. This is what led me to the statements I have made. However, this is not an affliction that only YOU possess. We are all subject to the same flaws in thinking.

Here is what happens, most people only accept the facts that already support their world view and ignore contradicting facts rather than change their opinion. They commonly don’t even know they are doing it. They don’t understand how the mind functions or how they have actually arrived at their conclusions because they have never taken the time to think it through. That is, think through, not just what their opinion is, but also how it is that they arrived at the opinions they have or even how we form opinions in the first place. There is a pretty well defined process, but we are never educated about how this occurs and we are not taught to think for ourselves in school. One of the reasons we aren't taught to think independently in school is because a population that thinks independent cannot be manipulated by politicians and the media. Most people who consider themselves free thinkers can't identify their own preconceived notions and thus end up becoming self-righteous about the opinions they do have. The vast majority of individuals cherish their own preconceived opinions more than true facts. What you consider empirical facts in this circumstance are not empirical facts, but merely opinion. Facts that contradict our preconceived world view are considered lies in order to preserve our own views. So you do not accept or consider the possibility the facts that conflict with your view might be true and this narrows your perspective and limits your judgment.

The problem becomes whose facts, or what facts, are the true facts. In reality there is no way for anyone to know for sure which facts are reliable facts. Even empirical experimentation has flaws. (I don’t want to take the time to explain why at this time.) However, nearly all accepted facts in the public area and many "scientific" facts are only accepted as facts due to popular consensus. The comments by either side of any argument are all merely opinion based upon what each person accepts as the core premises (facts) that support their personal view. If we change the basic premises of our view our conclusions change and this changes our experience of life.

[FuXnDajenariht]

please Scott, if you wanna defend your support for the war then fine. but dont patronize me with half assed Daoistic philosophizing about my so called unconsciously preconceived notions.

what makes you an authority on what qualifies as correct thought processes? what makes you assume i haven't put as much thought into my conclusions as you have in your own, or that no one here constantly comtemplates, dissects and investigates the reasonings, origins and meanings behind their thought-forms in an effort to perfect the functioning of their minds? are you saying your the only one capable of forming rational, unbiased, clear-headed, well researched opinions? oh i see..... would i be a free-thinker if i conceded to your opinion that im not actually qualified to have any?

if we are all capable of flawed thinking as you say, which any sane person wouldn't deny, then what makes you so certain yours aren't flawed as opposed to my own?