Infighting

[Starchaser107]

Has anybody experienced infighting within the structure of thier school, for example conflict between two or more sifus , or sihing, or students who just generally dont get along with each other. In the case of the Higher ranks , for instance Sifu's conflicting with Sifus , or Sihing with Sihing , is this something that is common, is it potentially dangerous for a school, how can this be resolved? Is it possible to ever resolve such a thing. Has your school lost black belts , or black sash students or even Sifu's because of serious internal conflict, disagreements or just severe difference of opinion, or even disrespectful conduct? Can this be prevented?

"everything is everything"_W.Rodney

[KC Elbows]

In my experience, some of it is fairly common, especially once a student is no longer a student, but a teacher in their own right, the student-teacher relationship becomes difficult to transition to the colleague-colleague relationship, usually most so for the person who used to be the student. They tend to overdo it, and sort of rebel, but if the teacher keeps a cool head, a lot of these become friendships again.

[shaolinboxer]

Actually, there is some competition among beginners. But not the advanced students, it seems.

[Starchaser107]

yes I noticed this , this I've seen happen at most schools whove been around for a while and thier students branch off to do thier own thing.
What I really find distressing is not so much the student teacher relationship , but student to student. This type of divide that has the potential to create side taking among the lower ranks instead of mutual trust. Things like inciting malicious things to discredit someones reputation or gossip, slander. It is unfortunate, one would think that martial arts would teach humility.

"everything is everything"_W.Rodney

[BeiKongHui]

The worst infighting I've yet to see was when I trained in a local MMA gym. It was run by a bunch of guys in their early to mid 20's who had all the answers. They were constantly arguing and back biting, lying to each other and the students. Hell, the head guy even had an affair with the wife of the only instructor with any maturity the gym even had. I don't know if you could call this place a McDojo because there were some good sport fighters but their self defense programs were a joke (with the noted exceptions of those taught by a JKD teacher and a Wing Chun/ Wrestling teacher) and if you didn't watch it they'd separate you from sh!tloads of $ real quick. I have heard the owners motto was "Tell them anything to get 'em to sign". They were a **** egotistical crew too.

I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
--Khalil Gibran

[joedoe]

Once you get 2 or more people together, there is bound to be politics involved at some point. It is inevitable and part of human nature - unless everyone involved is able to control their egos.

Politics is a part of any organisation, and unfortunately MA schools are not exempt from this.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[SteveLau]

Once you get 2 or more people together, there is bound to be politics involved at some point. It is inevitable and part of human nature - unless everyone involved is able to control their egos.

Joedoe, well said. And MA school is particular prone to politics. Just look at the nature of the art will tell you why. It is martial.




Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[curenado]

Joedoe, well said. And MA school is particular prone to politics. Just look at the nature of the art will tell you why. It is martial.
Regards,
KC
Hong Kong

That seems to be a matter of the nature of the house, or even perhaps the various styles.
The loudest and most visible gyms are the competative ones and the most populated are the exercise & form ones. Neither of those prioritize outside of that and they are more vulnerable to winds and schism.
Not just nature & nurture, but environment, goals & contrast in group dynamics. I doubt a ranger or a seal would identify a pro martial environment as one of petty jealousies, false competition or argument tactics or where that which occurs is able to affect the group as a whole to any degree.

[bawang]

any opportunity for power and control attracts those ppl like flies in anything in life

thats why kung fu got no hierarchy

[jimbob]

Wow - this a trip down memory lane. Nice to see some old names I'd long forgotten.

Worst infighting I ever heard of happened in a friend's kendo school. The sensei gave his blessing for his senior to open his own branch (dude was a good teacher and excellent kendoka). Two years on, with much success, a long lost sempai of the new instructor turned up. He hadn't trained for 25 years, but at one point was very high in the organisation. Japanese worklife just stole him away.

Anyway, 25 years or so later he decides he's now got enough time to come back to training, shows up at the branch school (where according to tradition, he is still the highest ranked person after the sensei) and starts throwing his weight around. The teacher is doing this wrong. The teacher is doing that wrong. The teacher wasn't there in the early days when it was just him and the sensei building the organisation. Seriously giving no face at all.

The sensei was at first thrilled to have him back. He did used to be his #1 after all, but as far as I know, even though he quickly grew tired of the sempai's behaviour and attitude, he never stepped in to help the younger teacher. I was told he had words with the sempai, but it didn't change much, and he never intervened on his younger teacher's behalf.

It ripped the organisation apart.

[Satanachia]

Well, since i'm learning through university, there are several groups that use the same training area. We've got Tae Kwon Do, Kung fu, Aikido(two seperate clubs), karate, ninjutsu, judo and probably several others i've forgotten.

Anyway, i know there's infighting between the clubs at our place. Basically each group has 1 or 2 representatives on a council of martial arts.
And so everything gets voted on, and suggestions on funding and stuff. Anyway, there's huge animosity between kung fu and one of the aikido clubs(i didn't know this till i started kung fu, but it didn't suprise me as i went and sat in on all the other classes before choosing this one, and i turned down the Aikido guy rather quickly) mainly because of the teacher.

Its gotten so bad apparently, that one student from each club met each other at some party. They basically said "hi, have i seen you at the dojo, yeah, i'm in this class, nice to meet you".
Next day the Aikido teacher claims our students are following his around to parties.

Anyway, i guess the point of my story is, whether it be in martial arts or any other organization is this:

Some people, irrespective of skill, are just wankers. :D

[Budokan]

Internecine warfare is a common problem in martial arts. The Journal of Asian Martial Arts ran an article about it just this year: Vol. 10 #2 about instructor/student relationships and how they go sour because that's the way the instructor's relationship with HIS sifu was. Sort of a self-perpetuating cycle.

K. Mark Hoover

[Richie]

No, never. We follow what Grand Master Chan says. We are like a big family and he is the head.

For traditional kung fu go to www.taishingpekkwar.com

[wu_de36]

If that was true... I'd congratulate you. But I'm pretty sure it's BS on some level.

[Richie]

Are talking to me? Hey its not my fault if your school is all ****** up. We respect GM Chan.

For traditional kung fu go to www.taishingpekkwar.com