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Thread: Tamo Sword (Jing Mo)

  1. #1
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    Tamo Sword (Jing Mo)

    Ta Mor (Tamo) Sword (Shao Lin Sword)
    Standard sword set by the Ching Wu School in Shanghai, China
    Source from Tamo Sword written by Chao Lin Ho and Chen Teh Sung (1920)

    Row I
    1. Ta Mor Kneed Farewell
    2. Fairyman Points The Way
    3. Horse Treads On Falling Flowers
    4. Two Dragons Holding (the) Pearl
    5. Advance Step Scoop (the) Groin
    6. Two Horses Share Wigs
    7. Old Trees With Strong Root
    8. Swallow Rolls Over Its Body
    9. Split Face (with) Sword Method
    10. Stable Young (or Sun) Needles
    11. Flying Across River
    12. Phony Strike Sweeps Dragon
    13. Virgin Bows To Buddha

    Row II
    14. Tornado Swaps (the) Neck
    15. Phony Strike Splits (or separates the) Gold
    16. Old Trees (with) Strong Roots
    17. Roll Over To Test Fruit
    18. Golden Dragon Spits Out Its Tongue
    19. Explore The Ocean, Capture The Dragon
    20. Arch Step, Separate (the) Gold
    21. Lazy Tiger Catches (the) Lamb
    22. Stable Young (or Sun) Needles
    23. Flying Across (the) River
    24. Phony Strike, Sweeps Dragon

    Row III
    25. Phony Strike, Splits (or separates the) Gold
    26. Old Trees (with) Strong Roots
    27. Roll Over To Test Fruit
    28. Golden Dragon Spits Out Its Tongue
    29. Lion Open Its Mouth

    Row IV
    30. One Incense Shoots Up To The Sky
    31. Strike Over The Head
    32. Two Dragon Exits (the) Cave
    33. Phony Strike, Splits (or separates the) Gold
    34. Old Trees With Strong Roots
    35. Roll Over To Test Fruit
    36. Golden Dragon Spits Poison
    37. Lion Opens Its Mouth
    38. One Incense Shoots Up To The Sky

    Row V
    39. Chin Kung (God) Subdues the Tiger
    40. Nine Praying Lotus Sage
    41. Strong Wind Sweeps (the) Leaves
    42. Stable Young (or Sun) Needles
    43. Flying Across (the) River
    44. Lion Open Its Mouth
    45. Fisherman Spreads the Net
    46. Stable Young (or Sun) Needles
    47. Flying Across (the) River
    48. Lion Open Its Mouth
    49. Fisherman Spreads (the) Net
    50. Stable Young (or Sun) Needles
    51. Flying Across (the) River
    52. Phony Strike, Sweeps Dragon
    53. A Virgin Bows (to) Buddha

    Row VI
    54. Phoenix Fights (with) Dragon
    55. Ching K'o Murders Emperor Ching
    56. Retreating Horse, Sword Style

    Row VII
    57. Golden Wheel Crossover (a) Disaster
    58. Quicksand, Hold Onto Sleeves
    59. Pat On The Shoulder
    60. Strong Wind Blows The Willow Tree
    61. Stable Young Needles

    Row VIII
    62. Swallow Goes Throught The Curtian
    63. Everything Goes According To The Will
    64. Fake Strike, Splits (the) Gold
    65. Chin Lun (a hero) Carries The Sword
    66. Two Dragons Twists and Turn (Together)
    67. Golden Wheel Crossover (a) Disaster
    68. 10,000 Cross Grinds
    69. Look Back and See The Sword
    70. Follow The Buddha

  2. #2
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    Cool

    I learned this set recently and many of the terms in your song match some which my Sifu refered to while teaching us. Tell me do you use a tassle on the sword in this form?
    Best wishes

    Lokhopkuen
    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders.
    -Patanjali Samadhi


    "Not engaging in ignorance is wisdom."
    ~ Bodhi


    Never miss a good chance to shut up

  3. #3
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    Very cool

    Pretty soon, we'll be the lyrical library here.
    Not sure if I'd use the term 'fairyman' tho... no disrespect, but it just sounds queer....
    Gene Ching
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  4. #4
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    It is interesting how different people translate the Chinese from these martial poems, not only is there the actual sound and meaning of the word/ Character but then there is also the codified subtext of the language of Chinese martial arts to consider.
    I noticed in line 57. Golden Wheel Crossover (a) Disaster, the translation I recieved from my teacher is Golden Wheel gets you out of trouble.

    Keep 'em coming guys I love the atmosphere you have created here.


    Lokhopkuen
    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders.
    -Patanjali Samadhi


    "Not engaging in ignorance is wisdom."
    ~ Bodhi


    Never miss a good chance to shut up

  5. #5
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    queer??ha ha

    i think its suppose to be ferryman, but i'm sure you knew that...

    thought the bay area is suppose to make you tolerant of these things?

  6. #6
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    "Fairyman"

    Hi Guys,
    Could "Fairyman"/"Ferryman" be also "Immortal" Points The Way ?

    I have this move at the beginning of my Tai Chi sword. Using sword fingers to poke/point forward.

    Cheers all

    Buddhapalm
    "In heaven and earth no spot to hide;
    Bliss belongs to one that knows that things
    are empty and that man too is nothing.
    Splendid indeed is the Mongol longsword
    Slashing the spring wind like a flash of lightning !"

    Monk Wu-hsueh Tsu-yuan - Reciting as the Mongol sabers slashed towards him. The Mongols spared him out of respect. For no ordinary man recites a poem facing death.

  7. #7
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    Buddhapalm,

    The answer is Yes. meaning of words will depend on one's background and preference. Since I'm of the older generation, word use of Fairyman vs Immortal makes no difference to me. As long as one gets the point across.

  8. #8
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    fairy vs. ferry

    Well, that's exactly my point. Fairyman might not get it's point across if it's translated as ferryman. If you know Immortal points the way is a common term, you can deduce that this is the same lyric, sometimes. There are enough variations that force you to go back to the chinese characters. This is where translation gets really sticky - only Yang Tai Chi is pretty standard with it's terms, the rest of us are all subject to pretty wild variation. I think NS and I can comunicate with the BSL lyrics we have been doing, but only because we both have worked with lyrics before and we both know the style well. But it's trickier for newbies.

    To instances come immediately to mind. One was when someone else tried to translate at Wing Lam while I was away at Shaolin Temple and they translated pao quan (cannon fist) as canyon fist. Bad accent, didn't know the basics. Embarassingly enough, it was published on a video so and remains like that to this day.

    Another was a discussion I was having with a teacher who had a move he called the Drums of Mandarin. I couldn't imagine what that chinese characters that began as so I picked at it - seems he just made it up himself.
    Gene Ching
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  9. #9
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    Lokhopkuen,

    Personal I do not use a tassel with this set. I never witnessed anyone using one either with this particular set. However, any sword set can be done with a tassel.

    The length of the tassel (short vs Long) will determine the diameter of the circular movements. Hence the longer the tassel, the bigger the circles are going to be and more arm movements are involved instead of using the quicker wrist movements.

  10. #10
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    on tassles

    You know, this is something that I've been pondering for a while. Modern wushu has those long tassel sword sets where the tassel serves as sort of an auxiliary striking implement - something only the Chinese would think up. But sword tassels exist throughout Europe and the Middle East. There they are used as lanyards, particularly for cavalry. It has always made me wonder if the Chinese sword tassel was originally a lanyard too just like in the rest of the world, but I have never seen it referred to for this in any Chinese reference. Tassels makes more sense as a lanyard, even the sashes on broadswords make more sense. Since that was sort of a lower class weapon, they would use a cheaper lanyard. However, once you get to form practice, it's hard to use it as a lanyard unless you modify the conventions of forms practice.

    Any thoughts about this anyone?
    Gene Ching
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  11. #11
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    Don't know if any of you have tried this, but I have and to my surprise it is useful, deceptive and deadly and involves using the tassle. Here's how...

    On a straight thrust, release the grip and let the sword fly at it's target, re-grip the tassle at the end before you lose the sword. It gives you the extra distance of the tassle length. Cool eh? Turns the sword into a "dart" of sorts, it does indeed work and gives an extra use to the tassle.

    peace
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  12. #12
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    Tassels

    I understood that the tassels were more of a distraction for the opponent. The opponent's eyes are attracted to the color of the tassels as it is flying around and thus his timing is off by a split second because his eyes are watching where the tassel is and not where the blade is. A split second is all that is needed and he dead, or at least got stab.

  13. #13
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    tassel myths

    KL- Did you ever see the Three/Four Musketeers with Michael York. I think it was Athos who develops a technique of throwing his sword into his target, then it may have been Aramis who parries it and says something about how only Athos could think of a way to disarm himselof so quickly in combat. Later he use the move effectively.
    Your tassel move is pretty gutsy. I think I could parry that pretty easily and be on you with my riposte before you could recover. But I have seen some people pull off some pretty odd moves in fencing, so I'm not completely disregarding it, just noting that it's not something I would use.

    NS - Yes, that is the dominant paradigm within CMA, but the world paradigm uses it as a lanyard. Also, such distractions are pretty ineffective if everyone's doing it. For example, you might be able to distract someone in combat by wearing a silly hat, but once everyone wears a silly hat, it's no longer effective. In swordplay, the practical ideas survive - the whistles and bells fall off. But since we don't really fight with sword anymore, there are a lot of misconceptions that, when uninhibited by reality (ie. silly ideas get killed off,) persist to be come truths.

    In every conventional sword you never watch the blade. It's too fast. You watch the body moving the blade. The tassels might be able to obscure some wrist movements. But when you think about it, if it was effective, why didn't other cultures arrive at a similar idea when they had the tassels too? Frankly, I've never found the tassel that distracting. The whole idea just doesn't ring true to me when I pick apart the story and compare it with other sword traditions. But of course, it would be impossible to disprove it unless I could find some archeological evidence.

    Can anyone say when tassels first appeared on Chinese swords? Maybe we should get Thomas Chen in on this thread....
    Gene Ching
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  14. #14
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    Gene,
    I've been told that the tassel can be used to grab a wrist, but I've yet to see it practically employed. Also the concept of grazing the eyes I've also been told, but overall, neither one makes a lot of sense because many attacks with the straight sword are done to the opponent's wrist with the cutting part of the blade, out near the end, thereby making much use of the tassle impracticle for wrapping or attacking. I've also heard that the backside of the broadsword up near the point (that straight part about 6 inches long) used to be sharp, but I've seen no evidence of this except in a Bagua Broadsword form I learned that used that part of the sword to cut in one movement near the beginning of the form. I don't know what's true and what's conjecture sometimes. Have you or anyone else heard of this part of the broadsword being used for attacking?

  15. #15
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    False Saber

    I can confirm the back edge on broadswords. It's known in the west as a "false saber" edge. Pretty common actually - you see them on old shamishirs (which is where we get the word scimitar) as well as old dao. In western fencing, it is commonly used for a stop cut under the wrist and the opponent extends his or her arm to make an attack. I've found exatly the same move within many broadsword and straight sword sets (and I used to get A LOT of mileage out of it on the fencing strip - very practical.)

    All the tassel myths still perplex me. They sound fine in retelling, but if you've ever fought with sword, they seem pretty impractical. Maybe I'm wrong, but something about them just doesn't ring true to me.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

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