I find it odd Xia that on the other thread you argue with me about this very point and Gene writes very close to what I feel and you agree. I see it like this. A 17 year old boy gets a 1967 GTO with a 454 and goes out and kills himself and others because he was not taught respect and to be humble with that power. We in the MA are the same way. We are taught this Tao and forget the need for a philosophy to guide that same power. Otherwise we end up being a bully. The thing with the Monks is this they are the Ideal unrealistically speaking, I know what we know and see is not how it was but by visualizing and imagening it that way one can strive for that imaginary Ideal. I find it humbling and am hapy to think that if some one came up and hit me that I dont have to break their neck or even a finger to know I would "win" since I did anyway by avoiding the conflict. The easiest fight to win is the one you avoid. KC