Monk Fetish!

[tattooedmonk]

But for the sake of discussion, I think fighting without philosophy is like a loaded gun in the hands of a ignorant child. So many people here just focus on fighting and that's really a shame. Of course, fighting lies at the essence of martial arts, but the definition of the fight is usually so limited (street fights, MMA) that it's really move of an attempt to create exclusivity than to spread martial arts to needy communities. What's more, with fighting, it's more important to know 'why' then 'how'. A fighter without an underlying moral philosophy is the tool of the devil.

Just incase you missed it and you want to learn something new.

[GeneChing]

One of the big issues with martial arts is how you define it. Many include a philosophical foundation, whether it be Taoism, Buddhism or whatever, as an integral part of the practice. From this point of view, if you're just working on killing skills, like military or bodyguard stuff, that's 'martial skill'. A practice like MMA, sans philosophy, becomes 'martial sport'. Of course, these are sweeping generalizations, but you get the idea.

There's a pervasive argument that martial arts didn't split into these different categories until the 15th-16th century. Some attribute this to the rise of firearms and artillery over cold arms and infantry. Suddenly, the warrior class had to re-define what they were doing in order to stay relevant. So they moved the practice towards self-cultivation and the practice of individual dueling became the order of the day. Interestingly enough, it's around this time period that qi starts to enter into personal martial practice. There's some earlier references to qi in sword practice, but for the most part, it was delegated to non-martial qigong practice and TCM prior to this transition period.

Personally, I find most people that say 'martial arts is just about fighting' to be dreadfully unimaginative when it comes to defining fighting. I do agree with that statement, but I'd qualify it by saying there's all kinds of fights. If you only define fights as fending off the back alley mugger, you miss the every day fights of staying healthy and such - the ongoing fight against the beer belly. That's a really tough one for many of us (I'm losing it for sure) and a much more common real world application.

[The Xia]

One of the big issues with martial arts is how you define it. Many include a philosophical foundation, whether it be Taoism, Buddhism or whatever, as an integral part of the practice. From this point of view, if you're just working on killing skills, like military or bodyguard stuff, that's 'martial skill'. A practice like MMA, sans philosophy, becomes 'martial sport'. Of course, these are sweeping generalizations, but you get the idea.

I think that the "arts" portion of the term martial arts refers to how someone makes the skills his/her own. Basically, how someone does a form his/her own way, fights his/her own way. Despite the fact that the style in question may be practiced by large number of people, no one will do it the same way.

Personally, I find most people that say 'martial arts is just about fighting' to be dreadfully unimaginative when it comes to defining fighting. I do agree with that statement, but I'd qualify it by saying there's all kinds of fights. If you only define fights as fending off the back alley mugger, you miss the every day fights of staying healthy and such - the ongoing fight against the beer belly. That's a really tough one for many of us (I'm losing it for sure) and a much more common real world application.

That's why I liken martial arts to a tool. The primary function the tool was created for is fighting in the narrow sense of the word. However, the tool can also serve other functions. As you said, it can be used for fighting in other instances.

[The Xia]

Thank you. I guess he missed Gene's post . Hi-Gene!! LMAO THe XIA thinks he knows everything and has no humilty. Something that is taught in kung fu classes,( something I believe he has never seen inside of), along with philosophy, and discipline; training that produces orderliness ,obedience, and self control.

It's been awhile since I've been graced with your petty insults.
So according to you philosophy and discipline are taught in Kung Fu classes? Personally, I think self-discipline is more of a product of training then something that is taught. As for philosophy, I think that it can be counterproductive if a teacher gets too preachy. I think in most cases Mo Duk seeps into students from exposure to an environment where people have these values. Sort of a conditioning process.
So you feel that training producing orderliness, obedience, and self control? Self control I would agree with. But orderliness and obedience? What do you mean by that? There are many people who wouldn’t use these terms to describe Kung Fu practitioners throughout history. Kung Fu was used heavily by anti-Ching rebels. So the people in those rebel societies were certainly not obedient to the Ching dynasty. If you asked a Ching official what he thought of members of these societies, I doubt orderly is the word that would come to mind.