Shou Shu - real or another made-up melange?

[cerebus]

Heh, heh. I like this. An art that even SDers question the validity of . T.

[BentMonk]

I'm not necessarily questioning the validity of the art. I just disagreed with the assumption that "strength and size didn't matter when practicing the mongoose style". Many people who take up MA are smaller and weaker than the general populous. I was saying that to make broad promises about what someone could accomplish without any sort of realistic training environment, would give the practitioner a false sense of confidence. We spar pretty hard here. I make it a point to cross hands with as many people who are bigger and stronger than me as I can. I may get my azz kicked, but at least I have a fairly realistic view of what I can and cannot do.

[Shou Shu Blue]

[i]My point to this story is, that promising smaller and weaker individuals that they will be able to do amazing things against people significantly larger than themselves is dangerous. It instills a false sense of confidence that could ultimately get them hurt or killed. I have been taught very effective techniques. I have also been taught to have the good sense to know when to run my bent azz to the house. I have ABSOLUTELY no delusions about my capabilities. I hope whatever you guys are teaching comes with a healthy dose of realism. Peace. [/B]

By no means are we taught we invincible or that we have to fight. Actually our Shifu's are really calm people. Alone the mongoose can be used against a similiar sized opponent. But that is why the other 6 animals are taught. Each animal compliments each other, by using all together each animal fills holes where the other leaves.

Believe me i have been in situations where i knew my level of training wasnt going to get a W in the column and just walk away. And my instructors were quick to tell me Since im about two belts shy of Black that all the way to the point im at now(Blue) from white to purple i was learning enough to get my arse kicked if i thought i was invincible. The art of Shou Shu has been refined and that is not the name it has been called it is the name our Da' Shifu Sr gave the art.

INDY, How tall was Da' Shifu Sr? im fuzzy on it since i only met him once back in the 80's. He didnt make it down to merced much.

But Like i have said before, Da' Shifu Sr had refined this art from what he was originally taught. He wasnt a man much on history he wanted to give a student the ability to defend himself in a real life situation. He applied certain theories of Techniques based teaching from Kenpo while maintaining the principles of the animals he was taught. Keng Luk gave a great explanation on the principles part. your not going to hear of Shou Shu anywhere because Da' Shifu Sr gave the style the name, it was a family art he was taught, just like any other Family art you not going to know the name as a wide spread practice. if any one is ever in California feel free to stop by any quan and say hello. Until you see you will never fully understand. That is whywhen i dont understand the other arts i go and ask questions to those practitioners. Honestly History is great to know but if the art is effective then students will stay and learn, and since the student base is in the thousands i would say its not a Mc Dojo and the art has proven effective for me on several occasions. Shou Shu has been in Ca for over 30 yrs. there are about 20 schools in Ca, and the ones you see on the internet have no affiliation to Moores Shou Shu but one teaches Shou Shu that he was taught by Da' Shifu Sr. What the internet has done for this forum for some is they have narrowed their opinion down to two quans which have a small student base by choice. But what originally started this thread was Moores Chinese Martial Arts which again 15-20 Schools in Ca.



Bent Monk i didnt think you were flaming, i can send you a few clips i have of Shou Shu email me if you can.


Salute,

Shou Shu Blue

[cerebus]

Kenpo.

[Indestructible]

Originally posted by cerebus
Kenpo.

Yeah, your right. Thanks for clearing that up for us. Now we just have to convince Al Tracy. Maybe you could speak to him for us.

[Shou Shu Blue]

I was once told that if Shou Shu didnt use the principles of the animals it uses then yes i could be Kenpo Solely based on the fact that the art is influenced by the technique based teaching. But also after you recieve your black belt your education isnt technique based it is form based on the animal your learning.

[joedoe]

So an art is kenpo or not kenpo because of the teaching methodology, and not the techniques, philosophy, or principles behind the art?

[Shou Shu Blue]

Originally posted by joedoe
So an art is kenpo or not kenpo because of the teaching methodology, and not the techniques, philosophy, or principles behind the art?

Not exactly what i was trying to get at.

Kenpo's Principle animals are 5

Shou Shu's principle animals are 7

Kenpo's Technique based from the start till the end

Shou Shu(origianally taught to Da' Shifu) Animal Forms each movement taught independentlly until the whole animal was learned. Then all movements were combined, once all animals were learned he was taught to entertwine them together.

[joedoe]

Ummmm, OK. I think I get what you are trying to say. I think.

[Shou Shu Blue]

Sorry i didnt get to finish my last post was at work had to cut it short.

ok so i got to the Animal forms, Da Shifu Sr tried to teach students he had the same way he was taught. Well you know us americans gotta have results right now. Not many of his students stayed because they werent seeing belts (he didnt have a belt system) and results being belts awarded.

so he saw tracy kenpo making bounds and leaps opening schools here and there, Student base growing. So he decided to join Tracy kenpo to see what they were doing that was different.

That is were Kenpo became a part of Shou Shu, Da Shifu Sr used the technique based teaching he learned from kenpo applied the seven animals principles to it and he started to see a student base grow. Now it is my understanding that since he has passed that the system has changed under the new regime. the only 7th degree (not an 8th because Da Shifu passed before awarding it to him) Da Shifu had before he died Retired shortly after his passing. Shun Shifu Clark is the only one that actually has about 95% of the art.

But without the Seven animals principles taught in Shou Shu it is just kenpo.

Salute,

Shou Shu Blue

[joedoe]

Don't worry about me, I am obviously having trouble with reading comprehension today. Thanks for trying anyway

[anton]

Originally posted by Shou Shu Blue

He applied certain theories of Techniques based teaching from Kenpo while maintaining the principles of the animals he was taught. Keng Luk gave a great explanation on the principles part.

Perhaps I misinterpreted, but I saw Kung Lek's post as giving the definition of "a principle" ... that is if you looked up "fighting principle" in some hypothetical "Kung fu dictionary" you would see something like Kung Lek's post. His post was also in response to your not providing any description of the specific fighting principles of your art. He gave some generic examples, nothing specific to Shou Shu. It still remains for you to answer the people who asked you what some of the principles behind your art are.

just like any other Family art you not going to know the name as a wide spread practice.

A LOT of the most famous CMA started off as family or clan styles. Hung Gar, is one such example, if I am not mistaken.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Alright, I must be on a different wave length here. Is a haymaker a roundhouse punch? If so, I've never heard of it called that, maybe just culture shock, no?

[joedoe]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
Alright, I must be on a different wave length here. Is a haymaker a roundhouse punch? If so, I've never heard of it called that, maybe just culture shock, no?

I guess you could say that.

[Shou Shu Blue]

Originally posted by anton

Perhaps I misinterpreted, but I saw Kung Lek's post as giving the definition of "a principle" ... that is if you looked up "fighting principle" in some hypothetical "Kung fu dictionary" you would see something like Kung Lek's post. His post was also in response to your not providing any description of the specific fighting principles of your art. He gave some generic examples, nothing specific to Shou Shu. It still remains for you to answer the people who asked you what some of the principles behind your art are.


A LOT of the most famous CMA started off as family or clan styles. Hung Gar, is one such example, if I am not mistaken. [/B]

But as i read this i feel as though i was just attacked in the verbage of your response. As not being a black belt or teacher in my art i cant give complete information. I can say that what Keng Luk posted is pretty much wide range on the principles of animals in MA. Now apply what he explained to the seven animals in Shou Shu. its not rocket science but the way you posted here your making it.


Those Famous Martial Arts are Famous because alot of the instructors of the arts formed Associations and linked them back to the various contries they came from, as well as commercialized them. Da' Shifu Sr did not care about being well known around the world or in the US for that matter, all he wanted to do was provide an effective self defense system. Think about this, if Bruce Lee wasnt a famous film star would the world know about JDK. IMO probably not.


Not meaning to be angry or snappy. after all that has been posted you would think it would all come together. I do believe Bruce Lee said If your cup is full empty it to learn anew or something of that sort.

Salute,

Shou Shu Blue