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Thread: Shou Shu - real or another made-up melange?

  1. #1
    Syre Guest

    Shou Shu - real or another made-up melange?

    I just came across this form called Shou Shu (see which makes all kinds of claims:

    <blockquote>Our mission is to carry on the traditions of the most complete fighting art in the world, Shou Shu. We teach a pure martial art which has not been altered from it's true fighting traditions. Shou Shu is the fighting art of the Mandarin warlords who have been the ruling class throughout China's history. It is a rare art mostly unheard of in the typical histories written on martial arts. There are several reasons for this. The first, it was only taught to the eldest son of a Mandarin warlord. In this way it's secrets were kept closely guarded. It is an extremely powerful and sophisticated system which was considered a true treasure to those who trained in it. For this reason it was closely guarded and still is. Secondly, to be called Shou Shu it must have all seven animal systems. There are actually seven systems taught. Each of these systems is a martial art in themselves. Each is based on one of the seven fighting beasts. These are the bear (xiong ) , the tiger (hu ) , the mongoose(you ), the white crane(ba he ), the praying mantis (tang , the cobra (fu) , and the imperial dragon (long ). When these seven systems are combined only then may it rightfully be called Shou Shu. There are many systems out there which teach one or two of these fighting beasts and go by another name.

    The question is, is this real or another bogus one? Here's some of its supposed history, from a forum on that site (

    <blockquote>When Da' Shifu was a boy, he lived in the bay near Chine Town (I can't remember which one right now). At that time the Chinese didn't have much in the way of police protection and they were targets for criminals. A man was sent from Chine by the name of Lu Chin (spelling?) This man was a Da' Shifu. Being a time of peril, it was decided that Lu Chin would teach the Chinese people in the area so that they could protect themselves from criminals. Da' Shifu's best friend was Jimmy Chin who was Lu Chin's Grandson. Da' Shifu was invited to study.

    After WWII, Da' Shifu then went to Chine to complete his education. He studied in what he said was like a college. This was in the town of Tinsin, now called TianJian. Each of the masters specialized in an individual beast.

    I doubt that Shou Shu has been evolved from any of the modern arts. I would think of the evolution of the martial arts a little differently. For the most part they all originated in Egypt. At that time they were probably very basic. Lots of wrestling. They were then further developed in India. Eventually they made their way to China. I'm sure that along the way there were many different schools of thought. Each of these broke off and formed their own art. Each evolving in their own way. This is why if you compare some of the things that you see in other arts to Shou Shu, you can see some similarities but they are very far removed.

    Hmm.. here's a picture of their chief master "Da Shifu" (the shifu? as in "Da Mayor"?)

    I dunno... seems fishy, but maybe someone here knows one way or the other.

  2. #2
    jameswebsteruk Guest

    I dont really buy the idea that only the eldest son was ever taught the style. That means that out of one generation, only one person ever learnt the style? Then he taught it to his son?

    Plus whats with the idea that all martial arts came from Egypt? Hell, every single country, however far back has a history of wars, and armies, standing or drafted, so this seems a bit of a sweeping statement.

    The Egyptians have probably the oldest civilisation that we know of, but that doesnt follow that they therefore invented MA.

    The chalice from the palace has the pellet with the poison,
    The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!

  3. #3
    JasBourne Guest
    This guy bill himself as the "Imperial Dragon". Ummm, isn't that like a Klan title?

    Anyway, I don't know about their kungfu, but they shure had a grrrreat time wif all da different spellins fer common CMA terms (sifu=shifu, kwoon=quan, etc) and they sure are frantically franchising the beejesus out of the whole thing!

  4. #4
    Raffi Guest


    they also had a link to their 'fitness videos' based on Shoushu, which went to this website -

    yikes! Me thinks the question has been answered...


  5. #5
    Shaolin36 Guest
    Heres an idea,
    The people of this board are pretty educated in CMA/MA pretty well. So
    1) If no one has heard of this guy that has to tell you his reputation.
    2)Any long lost fighting art that has'nt been around long enough to go through hundreds/thousands of people testing this and becoming famous in some way related to the art (i.e. forms,weapons or fighting)proves that it may have once been, but it did not last in its entirety due to its lack of something somewhere.

    Just some deductive reasoning thoughts!


  6. #6
    lkfmdc Guest
    Here's a real concrete way to go about this, what the heck is "Shou Shu"? In Mandarin one might assume it means "Hand Art" but not only does that sound darn goffy, it isn't correct Mandarin either really. It sure isn't Cantonese dialect.

    And here it gets funny. I said this somewhere before (maybe here? maybe on and someone, maybe a student of this guy, told me "it's Shanghaiese"

    Well, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my wife is Shanghaiese and I can tell you that this is not Shanghaiese.

    I always get a kick out of people who don't speak Asian languages naming systems. My personal favorite are people who mix Japanese and Chinese words together, after all those are both just Asian languages, they can be mixed together after all (that is sarcasm for those who don't realize)

    Ever heard of the infamous art of Atemi Chi Do? Another guy names his method "the gangster school". And of coures there was "the school of the bisexual"

  7. #7
    Kung Lek Guest
    say, does this have anything at all to do with that infamous "hamster" style I keep hearing about? hahahahahahahahahaha.

    school of the bisexual? that's pretty rich Ross :D
    Would love to watch the Chinese folk walk by that school averting their gazes madly! :)


    Kung Lek

    Martial Arts Links

  8. #8
    Lost_Disciple Guest
    Started a similar thread on the Mantis forum after reading this one. I've gotten at least one reply that says the form filmed here: is a 7 star mantis broadsword form.

    So either these guys are just doing a little bit of false advertizing- because 7 Star mantis is not a manchu style. Or else, they're not beyond blatant pilfering.

    Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

  9. #9
    GLW Guest
    The current issue of MA PRO (I have NO idea how they got me on their mailing list nor even how I was given a subscription...I never paid for it....) has a guy writing about approaches to things and he relays a story about Sun Tzu...but refers to Sun as talking about the TSUBA of the sword and other such things that are PURE JAPANESE in opposed to Sun Tzu being the Grandfather of Chinese War Strategy...

    go figure.

  10. #10
    Syre Guest


    Where did you find that video on their site? I can see no link to it from anywhere.

  11. #11
    lkfmdc Guest
    A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. The samurai of feudal Japan used to carry the "dai sho" or "dai ken (big sword) and sho ken (little sword)". Someone thought it would be cool to have the "house of Dai Sho" or "Dai Sho Kan". Sadly, in modern Japanese slang, "Dai Sho" can also mean bisexual :)

  12. #12
    blaktiger Guest

    Frank Exchange

    Just an FYI - Martial arts did originate in Ancient Egypt.

    A set of instructions for what we would now call Kata were found on the walls of pyramids in the Valley of the Kings. It was mostly a grappling art. This theory was verified by The History Channel's documentary on Martial Arts, hosted by Wesley Snipes.

    Since Greece occupied Egypt at some point in history, you can see how the progression of martial arts to China may have happened: Greece to India to China to Japan/Okinawa/Korea etc. Most likely the earliest form of chinese art, which we have kicked around for a bit on this board was Shui (sp) Chiao - a brutal grappling art visually similar to GR wrestling.

    "I'll be too busy lookin' good!"

  13. #13
    Waidan Guest
    Oh, well if Wesley Snipes says so...:)

    Saying MA "originated" anywhere is silly. MA originated wherever one human wanted to kill another. Which, history tells us, is pretty much everywhere.

  14. #14
    kungfuyou Guest

    Shou Shu

    Well, I used to be a student of Shou Shu, until I was informed of the fact that it is actually Chinese Kenpo. He puts it off as Kung Fu. That film is from one of their camps that they have twice a year were all the schools get together for a weekend outting at Master Moore's place in the foothills. You pay like $55 for all weekend. You bring clothes, sleeping bag and tent, and all you do all day long is practice. They break you up into your belt rankings and practice forms and technique. Only Moore's students are allowed to go. Family is invited, and food is provided.

    Didn't really care for the style. One of the shifu's said that Moores' son was a black sash in Hung Ga and said all the stances were in practical and bad for your posture. As well as not practical for self Defense. They definitely promote compitition.

    As far as weapons forms go. I asked one of the shifu's there and he said that weapon's are impractical, and they don't really teach them. Even though they have all of them in a room. He puts on workshops every once in a while. Takes traditional forms, and makes them practical for everyday use.

    I took about 4 lessons and quite. They don't let you come and watch a class if your not a student. So if your interested, you have to pay $20 for 4 half hour lessons. Once you do that, they get you to sign a years contract, ranging from $85 a month, that includes something like 1 class a week, and one one hour private session with a shifu or black belt. He has about 4 or 5 schools in Northern Cali as far as I know.

    That's all I know about it.

  15. #15
    neptunesfall Guest


    I am the Grand Ultimate Mongoose.

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