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Thread: Shou Shu - real or another made-up melange?

  1. #466
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    You are standing in my space.
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    I'll tell you what is in Ohio:

    "Taco Shack" - perhaps the most dismal attempt at Mexican food for bland palletes. I couldn't recognize any actual 'food' on the menu, no jalapenos, and the 'hot sauce' was that thin, red fluid that comes out of a ketchup bottle before you shack it...
    "Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake."
    --- Napoleon

    "MonkeySlap is a brutal b@stard." -- SevenStar
    "Forgive them Lord, they know not what MS2 can do." -- MasterKiller
    "You're not gonna win a debate (or a fight) with MST. Resistance is futile." - Seven Star

  2. #467
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    Sacramento, Ca
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    2
    Originally posted by badams8705
    Well I see it has been a while since anyone posted on this topic, but I wanted to put in my two cents anyway. I first entered a Moore 's studio back in late-1985 here in Sacramento. I had checked out a couple other styles but decided I liked what I saw there. I studied there for 2 years earning my green belt. I stopped going for a while as I got a divorce, remarried, blah, blah, blah. I went back in 1994 and studied about another year and then quit. I had brushed up my material and was almost ready to test for brown, but I had some back problems that were giving me grief. Anyway I wanted to weigh in on a couple of facts here as someone who studied the art for a few years but has no current tie to the school.

    First of all, MA studios come and go, but Moore's in Sacramento opened their current location in 1984 or 1985. They are still there and operating today. That's about 20 years right there. Prior to the Sacramento location, they had a studio in a Sacramento suburb called Rancho Cordova. So they have been in Sacramento for a long time. Longevity in the market place is often a sign of a quality product. Not to mention their presence for even longer periods in some of the surrounding cities.

    I can attest to the following facts:

    1) We had a lot of people in Moore's who used what they learned in the studio to enable them to do their jobs. Police for City of Sacramento, Woodland and Galt; Sacramento County Sherrifs; prison guards and correctional officers from Folsom Prison and Vacaville State Prison/Mental Hospital. These people would have been toast if this was a bogus art, so I was always impressed by the Law Enforcement folks who chose to study Shou Shu. We also had a huge variety of other professions from illegal migrant farm workers, to semi pro base ball players and military personnel, to doctors and lawyers.

    2) There were a number of people who had studied other arts who, after coming to our school, would say this was a better art for defending themselves than what they had previously studied.

    3) I was lucky enough to be there when DaShifu Al Moore Sr. was still alive. He would come into the Sacramento school occasionally to teach. Or he would walk around during our camps and teach different groups. My god, he could cause you pain with barely a move. I vividly remember a demo, where he used me as the opponent, where he tapped me in the forhead with his finger. Not quickly or anything, but it felt as if I had been hit in the forehead with the rounded end of a steel pole. I felt a thin, intense line of pain from the surface of my forehead about half way into the inside of my head. My head hurt the rest of the day.
    Every occasion I remember with him in which he was demoing a technique, it always felt like you were bring hit by steel. And the thing was, he was never moving very fast, he just knew how to use the art to maximum efficiency.

    4) This is heresay, it was told to me when I first entered Moore's so I can'y vouch for it based on first hand experience, but supposedly for a couple of years when the school was in Rancho Cordova, there were some mercenaries training there. The Shun Shifu for the school at that time, was um .... very "physical".

    5) Shou Shu is (or at least was) a very contact oriented MA. We practiced our material on each other, hour after hour, night after night. Full contact, but not full speed. Bruises were the norm, I think my favorite was the bruise then went from the top of my pelvic bone on my right side, up past my ribs, nearly to my armpit. It was very pretty Not only did this help fine tune our material, but we were hitting ourselves harder in class than we would likely be hit in a fight, so it was toughening us up.

    Anyway, I dont want to do a novel, just wanted to add, what I hope most of you will consider couple facts about the legitmacy of the art.

    Hi to all the former and current Shou Shu folks who have posted here.
    I currently attend the moore's school in sacramento, and we still have correctional officers that come in from Folsom prison, a task force officer for Dept of Justice.. a few police officers.. all walks of life...the coolest of them all was this little man in his late 50's that owns a barbershop about a mile away... wanted to take up some type of self defense and thought he'd try us out..
    he's been going about 8months now, just recently on my day off I was at a t.v repair shop across the street from his shop.. I walked over to pay respect and say hello.... he was so happy to see me, he started to explain how his confidence has shot up and he walks feeling so good about himself.. he told me "its not that I think I can beat everyone up or even a few.. its the thought that I feel good about myself and know that i'm learning to protect myself by the fastest and most efficient means.

    I train in my shou shu all the time.. with others and by myself... by myself I try and critique any mistakes, with others, I hve them come in full speed like if we were on the streets.. we don't pulverize each other.. at least not all the time.. but for the most part.. we are attempting to make things a bit more realistic..no sparring goes on.. no crazy stances...
    but with any art or mma, if you only train 1 or 2 x a week for no more than an hr.. your not really going to do well in a real life confrontation....
    dismemberment is free of charge!

  3. #468
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Worthington, OH, USA
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    1,808
    So whats in Ohio?
    What I'm aware of:

    Here in Columbus there's:
    An Tian Rong: Baji Quan, standardized and Sun Taiji Quan, Bagua Zhang, Xingyi Quan, and Chang Quan(somewhat retired from teaching most of this harder style stuff).

    Dr. Huang: Baji Quan, some mantis(I don't know what style), Yang Taiji Quan("old" Yang and Yang Cheng Fu, I think).

    Nathan Menengad: William C.C. Chen Taiji Quan and Liu He Ba Fa(aka waterboxing)

    Tony Brown: Hung Gar, Yang Taiji, and Southern Mantis

    Mat Molica: Shuai Jiao, Chang Taiji Quan, and a mixed martial art called Iron Tiger(dubious origins, but it works ok as quick self defence type stuff).

    Jeff Naayers, Craig Rex, and Greg Zogonas: Wah Lum praying mantis and Taiji Quan

    Jeff Radcliff and Vinnie Rivera: Chen Taiji Quan

    There's also a few CMA clubs at OSU(some taiji and a shui jiao club), and a couple more Shui Jiao schools. I've probably missed a couple places, but that's all I can remember off hand

    Now up north you have Tony Yang's peopleWu Tang Center, Ted Knecht USA Yongnian Taiji Center, Johnny Wu wu jia quan, and I'm not sure who all else there is.

    I also have no clue what's in Southern Ohio either, except for Shaolin-Do. Oh, and there used to be a Black Dragon Ninja place(Ashida Kim style ) here in Columbus, but it closed down after the instructer graduated from high school

    Fortunatly, I haven't come across Taco Shack yet, but we have plenty of White Castles(mmm... sliders! ). We also have the worst football team in the big ten this year

  4. #469
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    UK
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    Originally posted by Indestructible
    1. We predate shaolin. What was taught to Shaolin was different than what was taught to us.

    2. We are originally triad based. Triads were originally good organizations but overtime feel into "other" activities. Look for references to monks who founded the Triads.
    The Triads (Sam Hop Wui) were anti-Manchu (Ching/Qing) organisations, with creation legends going back to the Shaolin Temple. So you can't have your origins in the Triads and yet pre-date Shaolin.

    From the brief scan of the thread, I think Shou Shu works because you all train so hard, not due to some innate superiority of the system.

  5. #470
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    California!
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    234
    The Moore System,.... is the only system in the United States recognized as Kung Fu by the People's Republic of China.

    Ahh, this is the first time I've ever seen this. Anyone have any info on this claim? http://www.mooreskarateandkungfu.com/aboutus/
    Bloodninja: I stomp the ground, and snort, to alert you that you are in my breeding territory.

  6. #471
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    All together combined, Da' Shifu Moore holds a total of 22 black belts.
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  7. #472
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    Nov 2004
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    Well, after you get your first blackbelt, it's not that hard to go around acumulating more of them. There's a lot of people out there who'll give out blackbelts to blackbelts from other systems, and systems you could just buy rank in.

  8. #473
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    Denver, CO
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    Or maybe he considers his 6th degree = 6 black belts...

    I only have two black belts.. one is a nice dressup leather one, one is more funky and fun....
    practice wu de


    Actually I bored everyone to death. Even Buddhist and Taoist monks fell asleep.....SPJ

    Forums are no fun if I can't mess with your head. Or your colon...
    uh-oh, I hope no one quotes me on that....Gene Ching

    I'm not Normal.... RD on his crying my b!tch left me thread

  9. #474

    Black Belts

    6 Degrees means 6 degrees in one art not 6 black belts. Da' Shifu Moore II has been in Martial arts his whole life. Da' Shifu holds black belts in 22 different styles outside of Shou' Shu'.

    What takes one person yrs to develop may take another months.
    Fear Makes You Hesitate, Make Fear Your Allie and Make Your Enemy Hesistate!

  10. #475
    22 styles? which ones?
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  11. #476
    "The art of Shou Shu was originally practiced by the highest members of society. In Egypt it was the Pharoahs, In India the ascetics. When It was brought to China it was used by the Triads to fend off the oppressive Manchurians. The Triads then Made their way to the US to defend the businesses and families in Chinatown from criminals. However the triads soon fell from their original protective purpose and fell into organized crime. The word Triad and the word Tong, which meant community hall, soon came to mean Chinese mafia.

    During this time, Shou Shu, was used for criminal activity. The triads became very powerful because of their martial skills. My teacher actually learned the art from those associated with these triads.

    Before the triads became the criminal element, Shou Shu was learned and taught only by the most moral in character. "
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  12. #477
    "A complete history of Shou' Shu' would be the subject of a grand epic. It's past is colorful and deep and can be found in the legends and histories of many great nations. Unfortunately the scope of this work will barely provide us with a synopsis. To do more would require an undertaking of grand proportion for both the author and the reader. I hope that one day it is a project which we can take on.

    Researching the history of Shou' Shu' is not an easy task. Throughout history the art has been held tightly guarded within elite groups. At many points in history it was nearly lost but fortunately carried on by a few to be taught to the next generation. During this time it was underground and most thought it no longer existed. For this reason it is sometimes reffered to as "The Lost Art" or "The Secret Art". However it has been carried on and will continue to benefit the human race.

    As far as we know, noone has ever put to paper the history of the art. Histories of martial arts as a whole do not mention it. The histories of most modern day martial arts do not intertwine themselves with the history of our art. Most martial arts, and especially Chinese Martial arts, of the modern day evolve from the same place, the shaolin temple. Therefore most histories of martial arts will begin there. To most this is where it all started and all histories will begin there. Our history is much older and gently passes the shaolin temple, but does not enter. For this reason, you will not find mention of our art in the commonly accepted histories of the various forms of kung fu. However the facts of our history can be verified in the histories and legends of many great cultures. Even today archeologists are uncovering symbols which we believe were training aids in our art. Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu and Christian religions alike, all contain bits of our history recorded within their manuscripts."


    red flags everywhere...
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  13. #478
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Denver, CO
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    5,492
    So you're saying he has a mighty kia.. sorry, had too...

    I'd be interested in seeing what he has bb in too.
    practice wu de


    Actually I bored everyone to death. Even Buddhist and Taoist monks fell asleep.....SPJ

    Forums are no fun if I can't mess with your head. Or your colon...
    uh-oh, I hope no one quotes me on that....Gene Ching

    I'm not Normal.... RD on his crying my b!tch left me thread

  14. #479

    That site is not even close

    Originally posted by SevenStar
    "A complete history of Shou' Shu' would be the subject of a grand epic. It's past is colorful and deep and can be found in the legends and histories of many great nations. Unfortunately the scope of this work will barely provide us with a synopsis. To do more would require an undertaking of grand proportion for both the author and the reader. I hope that one day it is a project which we can take on.

    Researching the history of Shou' Shu' is not an easy task. Throughout history the art has been held tightly guarded within elite groups. At many points in history it was nearly lost but fortunately carried on by a few to be taught to the next generation. During this time it was underground and most thought it no longer existed. For this reason it is sometimes reffered to as "The Lost Art" or "The Secret Art". However it has been carried on and will continue to benefit the human race.

    As far as we know, noone has ever put to paper the history of the art. Histories of martial arts as a whole do not mention it. The histories of most modern day martial arts do not intertwine themselves with the history of our art. Most martial arts, and especially Chinese Martial arts, of the modern day evolve from the same place, the shaolin temple. Therefore most histories of martial arts will begin there. To most this is where it all started and all histories will begin there. Our history is much older and gently passes the shaolin temple, but does not enter. For this reason, you will not find mention of our art in the commonly accepted histories of the various forms of kung fu. However the facts of our history can be verified in the histories and legends of many great cultures. Even today archeologists are uncovering symbols which we believe were training aids in our art. Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu and Christian religions alike, all contain bits of our history recorded within their manuscripts."


    red flags everywhere...
    SevenStar,

    The site you get that info from is not even close. it is operated by an individual that has his own ideas on how it all came about it send our red flags up too.

    Its been the topic of arguement by all on what he put on that site. that site is not operated by an active Shifu in the Moore's Shou Shu system.



    to answer the question of what 22 styles, i have never had the opportunity to sit down with Da' Shifu to ask him exactly what styles, maybe one day i will have that chance but not recently.


    hope you all are having a wonderful holiday season.
    Fear Makes You Hesitate, Make Fear Your Allie and Make Your Enemy Hesistate!

  15. #480
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    modesto
    Posts
    2

    al moores shou shu is real

    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesfall View Post
    I am the Grand Ultimate Mongoose.
    al moores shou shu is real i would like to inform you thar most all of the material is based upon theory and does take practice to maintain proper chi flow ,,at least as far as ive came to understand. thank you

    shifu sullivan
    James E. Sullivan

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