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Thread: Shou Shu - real or another made-up melange?

  1. #16
    Lost_Disciple Guest
    Syre
    On the navigation bar on the right, at the bottom is a fist- that's a link to the video clips; almost 100 of 'em. Shifu Volpendesta is towards the bottom.


    Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

  2. #17
    thekuntawman Guest
    i usually dont bad mouth people, and this time i am not bad mouth them.

    the story is bull****, they are teaching kenpo with a fancy name. they teach people only how to kill and cripple, and they dont do tournaments unless they are death match. so i offered a death match division and the guy still decline because he didnt want his boys going to prison. (not a jake, its a real conversation we had).

    unless you like to throw away your money, dont go and waste your time. :D

  3. #18
    Syre Guest

    truth in advertising

    So is it Kenpo? Is it made up? Is it something else?

    Is everyone agreed that it isn't a pure, complete MA from China?

    What's up with the "college" where each master specialized in one beast? Was there any such place?

    If it's not true, how can people get away with making all these claims?

  4. #19
    GLW Guest
    Enough of the idea that MARTIAL ARTS originated from (fill in the blank)

    EVERY place that has had man has had some method of martial activity.

    Go back to cave dwellers. They fought and hunted.

    First came the dance that was a re-enactment of the hunt or the re-enactment of the battle. Over time, these dances became stylized. They would then do them before a hunt or before a battle.

    Then, over time, they began to notice that such things could be used to train the hunters and warriors in the tribe in how to hunt and fight. It is a natural progression and virtually EVERY community of man has done it.

    First or last...who cares. It is HUMAN. Each culture takes what it has and makes it their own. Recorded human history goes back some 6000 years. People migrated...is it really that unusual to see ideas that are common or ideas that started in one place and ended up in many. To look for the oldest records of an item is the field of historians and archeologists. To cloud the issue with ethnic or cultural pride...a waste of time. Just my two cents worth...

    On the topic here though....
    Shou Shu....Shou Me.... Never heard of it in 25 years....

  5. #20
    bustr Guest
    "A set of instructions for what we would now call Kata were found on the walls of pyramids in the Valley of the Kings. It was mostly a grappling art. This theory was verified by The History Channel's documentary on Martial Arts, hosted by Wesley Snipes."

    The Pyramids? I've heard this before. I read about it in "War With Empty Hands" by Lennox Cramer but the only MA reference that I've been able to find from ancient Egypt is the famous tomb paintings at Beni-Hassan that show wrestlers. I haven't been able to find anything on the pyramid decorations that show MA. Do you know of any website that cover this?

  6. #21
    Syre Guest

    see my new topic

    see my new topic, "egyptian martial arts"

  7. #22
    jameswebsteruk Guest

    African Tiger

    I agree with Waidan, but it depends on how you define martial arts.

    Humans have always wrestled, humans have always fought with and without tools. To claim that the Egyptians invented fighting or conflict is clearly ridiculous, but I doubt that is what you are saying.

    If you are defining Martial Arts as predominantly Eastern, then maybe they have their roots in China, before that India, and possibly before that, Egypt. But I dont think it follows. Tribes of humans in China, for example, would have developed their own fighting skills, passed down through the generations thousands of years before the Shaolin temple was around, with its possible Indian connection.

    People fight. Along the way some people might codify their skills in written form, or in paintings. Others dont, preferring oral and hands on teaching.

    So, it is indeed possible that the earliest depiction of wrestling or fisticuffs is Egyptian, but that does not imply that it was invented by Egyptians.

    The chalice from the palace has the pellet with the poison,
    The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!

  8. #23
    GLW Guest
    Frank...

    Great line at the bottom...Not many people remember that old Danny Kaye movie....The Court Jester....great one too....

  9. #24
    jameswebsteruk Guest
    GLW,

    Your right. I loved it as a kid, but only seen it twice. I just like the way it rhymes. And I thought that the main character was Bob Hope until I finally looked it up.

    Frank

    The chalice from the palace has the pellet with the poison,
    The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!

  10. #25
    smogwax Guest

    Shou Shu Student

    Hello All,
    I have been studying Shou Shu for a little over 2 years now. I do not know cantonese or mandarin, but I do know that Da' Shifu (that is how we refer to our grand master) did train in China, I also know he trained with Ed Parker among others. As for history I can not say, I do know that what I have learned works and I can see the difference in our art from others, and some similarities. There is a post which links to a video file of one of our Shifu's (black belt or sifu to most) doing a mantis form. This form is an interpretation of a Brandon Li form, this is not a Shou Shu form but is done using Shou Shu motion. We have about 15 studios in the central valley of California. Our oldest school still open is in Lodi, which has been there for 25 years. I do not know about any "deathmatch" and I am not a black belt but I would be willing to work out with any one from the area to do a little light sparring. Of course, this would be for mutual learning purposes I do not wish to challenge anyone to prove anything. I enjoy my art and enjoy learning how I can more effectively use my art in all situations. My primary concern in training is the effectiveness of the training not necessarily the documented history. Most martial arts were handed down through training as opposed to books so this does not concern me. In reference to the Karaticise site, that is an aerobic work out not a martial art and does not apply to this forum. As I have said I am a student of Shou Shu I do not speak for Shou Shu but I am happy to share my experience.
    Regards,
    Eric Ô¿Ô¬

  11. #26
    soy Guest
    should be called he-yuck fu..

    Not to start a flame war or anything. But anyone who studies this fraudulant crap is getting totally ripped off. I'm not as concerned with the efectiveness of the art. But judging by the way it is priced, and the emphasis on belts.. This is not the real thing. Perhaps for some people this is their only option, but in any case. I'd suggest that you go elsewhere for training.

    Etc etc..

    and that karatisize stuff is absolute ass too. those people are:

    Not breathing

    Not aware of their limbs

    Not even working up a sweat

    Thus it is neither arobic, or does it have any relation to kung fu.

    Morons. All of them.

    Gah!

    [This message was edited by soy on 10-30-01 at 11:13 AM.]

  12. #27
    smogwax Guest
    I do not believe that there is an emphasis on belts. What makes you believe that? The cost of our studio is comparable to any other that allows you to go in and study 10 hours a day, so I do not have issue with the money.
    As you choose to not concern yourself with the effectiveness of the art then I guess we agree to disagree, thank you for your point of view.
    ~regards

    Eric Ô¿Ô¬

    added after the fact:
    Again Karaticise is aerobics not a martial art. Just like the many other aerobic programs offered by people paying rent for their studio space, plus all excercise is good in my opinion (being that I am a desk jockey during the day)

    [This message was edited by smogwax on 10-30-01 at 11:42 AM.]

  13. #28
    shunshifuw Guest
    Hello, this will be my first and last post to this forum. I am a busy man and as I am sure my post will be met with much discussion I would rather spend my spare time practicing my mongoose (something you will never have the opportunity to know or see ) than arguing what is to me a mute point. I cannot prove the validity of the art that I study and teach on a forum, nor can you disprove it. I will not spend the hours it would need to explain our history.Much of this history is not even known by our own students, why should we discuss it with you.

    Soy, I notice that your profile does not tell us your city of residence.

    Stealing is not a quality I would attribute to a martial artist. Please do not steal my pictures or plagiarize my website.

    I have spent many years training in Shou Shu. In my early years, my curiosity got to me and I spent much time investigating other arts. I went to tournaments, demonstrations, attended classes and took it to the streets. I have now decided that this is a waste of my time. Now they come to me and I try to be as polite as possible but I show them the way. I can imagine how hard it is for people who have trained all of their lives to realize that they have wasted their time.

    The secrets of Shou Shu are not seen unless you have Eyes for them. In investigating other arts it is obvious to me that most of the things that they do have origins in something useful and real. However they are ussually so diluted to be innefective. Most forms of kung fu have lost the why and the truth although it is there hidden. You , most likely do not know what you are looking at. It is not your fault, it has been lost in most arts.

    I'm afraid that one cannot explain the sea to a well frog.

    Although, typically, while looking at most forms of KF, I do see some degree of chi. Unfortunately, it is not focused. Herien lies the first of the basic flaws, there are more. But I am not your teacher.

    We promote a video called Cardio Karaticise not to sell martial arts, you cannot learn it from a book or video. Even learning the exercise is not entirely possible from a video. We do it because the flowing focussed energy is of benfit to many. Especially those who need a workout which will not stress the back and joints. It does not look like much of a workout but that again is very decieving. Done somewhat properly it is one of the most intense on the market. I in know way see this as selling out. We do not and never will, sell our art on video. Nearly any art can be bought in that way and we refuse to do it.

    Yes, we do some of the Kempo techniques, but as someone on this forum has already stated, the technique is not the art. The technique is the most basic level of learning. It is only a starting point.

    As far as the question of price goes. Im not sure what the question is. Are we to low. If so I agree. If our students really paid for what they got in our studios not many could afford it. However, as we see the benefit it brings to people, especially families, we like to make it available to them. Excuse us for giving such a deal.

    If my Da' shifu were to one day come to me and say that the history was all a lie. He got the art from a magic gumball machine or made it up. I would inly train harder in it. For then I would consider him more of a genius than I already do. It has saved my life and the lives of others too.

    As far as the sword form goes. Brandon Lei (sp?) taught that to us. Really, as with most of that a bit to showy for our taste. The way he constantly says "Charisma, charisma " What has that got to do with fighting. I don't understand. Some of our shifu's have converted it to our motion. I saw that one of the posts noticed this. It is different, he has taken out the flashy BS.

    We have had other Masters come to teach us also. We alwys find that they have litlle or nothing to teach. ASk a certain Swai Chou (sp?) master who was bested on his own terms at his own art by one of our junior black belts after a seminar on the topic.

    Masters have flown from China and Japan to study from Da' Shifu. He is knowledgeable enough to corect them in their own arts and I have seen this.

    I am sorry that you train without seeing. It is unfortunate that most of you will spend your life learning an art which has lost it's fighting ability over the years. I'm certain that at one time in history it was taught well, else it would not still exist.

    Shou Shu has worked for me with extreme efficiency. I have been attacked on the street by multiple opponents ( 8 on 2 ) who had weapons and meant to do me great harm. They were hospitalized and I'm sure many have injuries which will never heal properly. I am sorry for that but my life was threatened. I am thankful for my abilities.
    Now as I am sure I will be flamed repetetively, have at it and enjoy yourselves

    Shun Shifu Phil Weaver
    3061 W. Hwy 12
    Burson, CA 95225
    www.mooresshoushu.com

    Check out the first soft style kung fu based martial art aerobic program
    http://www.karaticise.com

  14. #29
    MonkeySlap Too Guest
    Okay,
    I'm game. Who was the Shuai Chiao 'master'?

    You know, that all sounds very impressive, but I've heard the same thing from a lot of groups that look and sound like yours.

    However, that doesn't automatically discount you in my eyes. What is Shou Shu (sp?) similar to? Does it share principles with any of the main 'streams' of CMA? Is it Long Fist derived? Hakka style? Like Hebei arts? What is your Qigong like?

    Just curious.

    "Poor is the pupil who
    does not surpass his
    master" - Leonardo Da
    Vinci

  15. #30
    Syre Guest

    Shun Shifu Weaver

    Shifu Weaver,

    I want to say that I certainly didn't mean to offend you or your school by starting this thread. You seem like a sincere and dedicated practitioner of your art.

    I appreciate your idea of focusing the chi and of a soft style being very effective.

    I just never heard of Shou Shu before, and the history on the web site and in your forum seemed vague to me. I think what made me sceptical and is making others here sceptical perhaps is this vagueness as to where the form originated and what the lineage was.

    I know don't need to prove anything, but this is what I was curious about.

    Thanks!

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