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Thread: Shou Shu - real or another made-up melange?

  1. #31
    gfhegel21 Guest
    The clips are embarassing.

    What the hell are those people doing?

    I'm sorry, but you've got to call a spade a spade: that website is crap. Maybe the website doesn't reflect the style, but we can only judge based on what they present. Maybe they can fight, but you would never know it from those clips. In fact, those clips suggest exactly the opposite.

  2. #32
    jameswebsteruk Guest
    The following is not a flame, but a genuine desire for clarification on your statements.


    >> Masters have flown from China and Japan to study from Da' Shifu. He is knowledgeable enough to corect them in their own arts and I have seen this. <<

    Which masters? When? What styles? Any evidence to back up these claims? Would they agree, if asked, that they were "corrected in their own arts"?

    >> It is unfortunate that most of you will spend your life learning an art which has lost it's fighting ability over the years. <<

    Tell that to Wong Shun Leung, just one of many.

    The chalice from the palace has the pellet with the poison,
    The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!

  3. #33
    MonkeySlap Too Guest
    Where are the clips? I wanna see them.

    "Poor is the pupil who
    does not surpass his
    master" - Leonardo Da
    Vinci

  4. #34
    gfhegel21 Guest
    They are large in size.

    Go here:
    http://www.mooresshoushu.com/

    Then click on the fist on the right.

  5. #35
    smogwax Guest

    Syre

    Hey, I read your last post and I do not believe that you indented any mischief so no worries.
    There will always be people sitting back in their chairs and critiquing everything, think of all those couch football players that come out every Sunday and Monday night to tell all those professional what they are doing wrong. Heh heh, kind funny when I think about. Anyhow. History was never the focus of our training and nothing has ever been written down, but I am sure if you got the 500 or more (actually many more) shou shu black belts together to share everything that Da Shifu has told them and the things they have experienced that you could nail the history down. Personally I think Da Shifu enjoys teaching more than he does worrying about all of this "political" rhetoric. As for others who choose to speak negatively of these "demo" videos I say let them show theirs and we can have a true discourse on the positives and negatives of both sides. Otherwise, I will keep my eye open for people such as yourself Syre who are truly students seeking to learn as I am.
    Regards,

    Eric Ô¿Ô¬

  6. #36
    kungfuyou Guest
    I don't know if it's just me or not, but I have a hard time believing what ONE man says, without any kind of proof to back it up. Not to say that Shou Shu is made up, but the fact that no one REALLY knows except for "Da Shifu", makes me too skeptical.
    It's true, martial arts is more than just the history that's behind a particular style, but it's another thing to claim its validity and claim that its one thing, and it's actually something else. Not that Shou Shu is doing this. I'm sure it really is an effective art. But going to the few lessons that I did, some things taught didn't make sense to me. But I'm no "master" to contridict it and say it is ineffective. It just wasn't right for me.

    Just some ramblings from someone who is learning something new. :D

  7. #37
    Braden Guest
    Smog - what principles do you follow in your movement and practice to emphasize qi development?

  8. #38
    gfhegel21 Guest
    If you want to see videos of people who can fight, check the clips at www.sherdog.com or www.ufc.tv or the photos at www.dogbrothers.com. Additionally, check out www.sanshou.org or
    http://members.tripod.com/~crane69/index.html
    for info about the Chinese fighting arts.

    All this "wave your arms in the air and the bad guy falls down dead" stuff is a joke as far as fighting goes.

    If it's just for demonstration, check out the various clips on the web of wushu demonstration teams. They do the same thing, only a lot better.

  9. #39
    smogwax Guest
    gfhegel21,
    Thank You but I have seen most of those video's I was refering to video's of your school or of you not to general UFC fights on the web. Those are interesting but we have our own UFC fights here in California also, they make more sense live :)

    kungfuyou,
    Hmm, too bad you did not have the patience for Shou Shu. I have heard many people say that after a couple lessons they wanted to be able to know more. A lot of people at the Shamrock school in Lodi California have said similar things to me in passing. One thing is for sure is that Shou Shu takes time to master.

    Braden,
    We follow the motion princilpes of the 7 beasts we study (bear, tiger, mongoose, crane, mantis, cobra, dragon). We also break those down into individual beast but Shou Shu as a whole is the unique combination of all seven.

    Regards,

    Eric Ô¿Ô¬

  10. #40
    Braden Guest
    Smog - could you elaborate please?

    I also study an art which some call 'soft-style,' some say emphasizes qi development, and some say differs from the other comparable arts in related issues.

    However, there are many specific and concrete ways in which this is true, which I could explain even to someone with no experience in it or similar arts. For example, there are certain postural requirements which we follow. Certain requirements also for movement. Also, certain ways in which we train different reflexes than other arts - which I could elaborate upon at length.

    If you would like to hear about them, I will glady share my impressions. I am most certainly interested in the specifics that sets your art apart from others, and the specifics of practice that makes you think your art is 'soft style' or emphasizes qi.

  11. #41
    MonkeySlap Too Guest
    Shun Sifu Weaver said:
    <<I would rather spend my spare time practicing my mongoose [something you will never have the opportunity to know or see ) >>

    Well, after observing the vids, I think 'practicing the mongoose' refers to something that causes blindness and hairy palms. I don't think any of us want to watch.

    Pretty basic stuff, not 'real' kung fu. Devoid of fundamental principles. Reminds of a lot of the pseudo-Shaolin schools I'd found around Chicago land.

    But I could be wrong on some points - these are obvious demos meant to entertain, and they did say they were a combat school, so maybe this is all show.

    I have to admire thier business model. Pretty good for commercial schools.

    Without meeting them first hand, I'll reserve any observations beyond that.

    "Poor is the pupil who
    does not surpass his
    master" - Leonardo Da
    Vinci

  12. #42
    MonkeySlap Too Guest
    I don't know what happened to my last post.

    The quote from SSW was: I would rather spend my spare time practicing my mongoose (something you will never have the opportunity to know or see )

    "Poor is the pupil who
    does not surpass his
    master" - Leonardo Da
    Vinci

  13. #43
    Alvar Guest

    Shou Shu

    Cardio Karatise Shou Shu...
    "Only $100 for the complete series" :eek: :confused: :mad:

  14. #44
    smogwax Guest
    Alvar,
    Shou Shu is not Cardio Karaticise, they are two different things, you do know the difference between Martial Arts and an Aerobics Workout. and the cardio vid is only 30 bucks

    MonkeySlap Too,
    I highly doubt Shun Shifu Weaver will post here again. Then again if I ran a school I wouldn't either... *shrug*

    Braden,
    I think our art uses both Hard and Soft. Hard being the Direct Linear Re-enforcement of weapons, like a basic rams head punch (we all know that). I think of hard as using my motion to attack my target, when I think of soft I think of the target getting trapped within my motion. We also use stances and body alignment and reaction training. Each of our beasts have a different body motion or priciple they follow and we apply all of these together. Flow is a very big thing for us, the seemless trasition from one beast to another or the application of different beasts together, where they make sense. Please email mail me and we can discuss more further.

    gfhegel21,
    Do you study some form of martial art? If so what are you studying?

    Disclaimer:
    I am a dedicated student willing to share my own personal experience, I do not speak for shou shu.

    Regards,

    Eric Ô¿Ô¬

    [This message was edited by smogwax on 11-01-01 at 02:49 PM.]

  15. #45
    gfhegel21 Guest
    Preface: my opinion on shoe shoe is based on comments here on this board and the Moore's shoe shoe web page (including the clips and forums). Perhaps there are super tough shoe shoe guys out there, but you certainly wouldn't know it from the web page.

    The reason I pointed you to those clips because watching them is a good start toward understanding why those demos are a vast waste of time if you want to learn about fighting. Information about NHB and other full-contact events are useful because we can all watch them; you do not need to rely on anecdotal accounts of how so and so beat 8 people up with his shoe shoe kung fu.

    I am not currently training, although I do not see how this is relevant. I trained for 5 or so years in Shi-Toh Ryu and Shotokan karate, a year of kickboxing (including some Muay Thai), 2.5 years Judo. I did a summer in a "NHB" type school (muay thai, silat, kali/escrima), with a sadistic instructor. When I finish my degree, I will resume Judo and add Muay Thai/Brazilian ju jutsu locally (there is a school nearby that teaches both in an integrated fashion, along with Kali/Eskrima/Arnis).

    The reason why I do not think it is relevant is because people like you and your instructor have been seen here before. You talk about how powerful your style is and how it's the best at everything (and make no mistake, your instructor bagged on everybody else's style in his brief visit to this board). Yet where are the great fighters produced by your school? It doesn't take an expert to recognize that something is wrong with this picture ...

    That leads to the next response: our style has too many lethal and illegal techniques to be allowed to compete. This topic has been covered again and again, although we can get into it again if you want (I will be back on the internet tomorrow). Although it's not been settled, many people seem to agree that if you can't win within the rules the a true NHB event, such as UFC or World Vale Tudo Championships allows, it's unlikely that adding back in your killing techniques is going to make the difference.

    If your top guys could walk through the competition in a NHB style event, there would be a lot of money in it, both for an individual, and for the style as a whole (see Rorion Gracie for an example of what that sort of promotion can do for a style).

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