Forms Factories?

[Fu-Pow]

I don't know if this term already exists but I think we should add it to the oh so eloquent McDojo.

def. A form factory is where the emphasis is on learning as many forms as possible to the exclusion of two-man drills and free-sparring.

FP

[Oso]

it would be a subset of McDojo's particular to CMA. I've never seen any karate school that was form heavy...just light in everything.

I just backed up from being form heavy in my curriculum...less is more is what I'm working towards.

[Royal Dragon]

In the old days before comercial schools, forms were only for the masters. students did conditioning, drills, and applications. Qi gong was also part of it.

Forms were assembled thru mastery of technique and application. By the time a master became a master, he often had his own forms that were basically the blue print for his system. Only his deciples would be shown the choreography of them...when they were ready to begin to teach. The form at that point consisted of all the previously learned material strung together in the order it would be taught to give coherent systemasation to the teachings.

Forms are sort of the teacher's edition to a textbook.

[SPJ]

the thing is that if you ask your students to do horse stance only for 6 months, they probably all left.

if you only teach a few moves over and over for 6 months, they probably all left.

maybe students "demand" more moves/forms to see their "improvements" and tuition "worth/values"?

[Fu-Pow]

I think if you had them sitting in horse stance for 6 months they would all quit because its really just the same as doing a form without a live partner but even more boring. If you had them do a punching drill with a partner for 6 months and had them apply it in all kinds of different situations it would keep them engaged and they would actually know how to do something.

There is something to be said for a certain level of conditioning but it seems that what I see more often than not is schools that teach some basics and then forms ad nauseum and never connect the form to any martial application. What's the point? Health? Ok, then why do martial art? Why not just learn non-martial Qi Gong or lift weights?

FP

[Royal Dragon]

I have found that teaching a form, and it's applications side by side with the basics and conditioing seems to work best to keep students.

With only an hour a class, it's not the best way to develop a fighter, BUT it does keep the intrest, so the student eventually gets some skill.

[Oso]

what i've ended up doing, from the commercial standpoint, is split our ling side off as a separate level. Learn the form at one level and the ling at the next. while at the solo level, basic applications and drills are done with the basic movements of the form. then for those that are chosing to spar, the movements and concepts are taken into the 'ring'...most often simplified greatly.

ma bu and deng shan bu...I only teach these two stances right off and the student will spend 1-2 months only working those two stances for 4 minutes total each class.

[Royal Dragon]

My first level consists of Kuang Yun Chuang, Wu Bu Quan, a number of common shaolin basic drills, and 18 basic Shaolin techniques. It could take anywhere from 6 months to a year to get good at it, but students can actually fight somewhat before they start learning the 32 Tai tzu Chang Quan set.

[Shaolin Wookie]

If you read Matt Polly's book American Shaolin, he comments that even the Shaolin Temple speeds up the cirriculum for foreigners because of the need to do so to keep interest in the material.

[Royal Dragon]

Basicallly what you do in that situation is give them the material, and when they decide they *Want* to get good, it's back to day one basics, basics, basics.

[SPJ]

if there is some sort of grading or results evaluation,

then students may practice and measure up to for advancement.

then forms collecting will not be seen as "advancement".

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[Infrazael]

If you wish to discuss you know who's school, shoot me an email. There's no need to get upset over the internet.

[yutyeesam]

The concept of form factories and McDojos are basically a reaction and response to the school owner's sense of what the majority of their student base want.

What I have found particularly effective in student retention is to have:

-The main classes consist of some conditioning, concept drills, and form learning
(these are the mandatory classes everyone must take)
-Have a separate class for sparring, that people have to qualify for
(this is where you can develop your San Shou team)
-Have a separate class for forms, that people have to be at a certain rank to take
(this is where you can develop form competitors)

I guarantee, if any McDojo or form factory school opens up a separate class for sparring, people will want to take it, and are willing to pay extra for it. But this all assumes the instructor knows how to TEACH sparring in a progressive (safe, yet meaningful) way.

-123

[BruceSteveRoy]

thats how our school works too. we have a basics class which until you test for your first sash is the only one you are allowed to attend. and as long as you are a student of the school you are expected to attend basics twice per week. then after your first sash you are able to attend forms class, and basic sparring 1 class. then you have to test for basic sparring 2, intermediate sparring 1, 2 and then you have to be selected for the advanced sparring class. there is also a sperarate class for weapons which you are eligible for once you hit the 4th sash which donotes a transition from beginner to intermediate. i think its a excellent system and really trains the basic skills. its funny because if for some reason you stop attending the basics class you can see the consequence in your handsets. lately bc of my schedule its been harder to get to basics and my forms feel sloppier. but yeah seperate classes offer different students what they want while still maintaining the integrity of both the art and the school. at least thats my take on it.

[Fu-Pow]

If you wish to discuss you know who's school, shoot me an email. There's no need to get upset over the internet.

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