Tai chi competitions and sparring

[Knifefighter]

These were posted on another forum:

Might lead to some interesting discussions and/or flame wars


Competiton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5RLWYQbNuI


Pushing- tai chi vs. another style
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_aYtgIkJ5UE

[B-Rad]

I actually like a couple of the techniques in the first push hands clip. I didn't really feel every exchange went into shui jiao or playground shoving (like many push hands competition).

I'm not sure what the deal is with the second one. LB doesn't really seem to know how to do push hands, and CXW isn't really defending himself. Not sure what the context is. It doesn't really look like they're being competitive or anything. More like CXW is just letting the other guy try to knock him down or something

[Water-quan]

I actually like a couple of the techniques in the first push hands clip. I didn't really feel every exchange went into shui jiao or playground shoving (like many push hands competition).

I'm not sure what the deal is with the second one. LB doesn't really seem to know how to do push hands, and CXW isn't really defending himself. Not sure what the context is. It doesn't really look like they're being competitive or anything. More like CXW is just letting the other guy try to knock him down or something

Looks to me like there is a lot of anger there... looks like two drunks pushing each other around. I don't know about CXW letting the guy push him - that's justmaking excuses for him. Seems to me the other guy gets right through and pushes him no sweat - so, not very impressive, lol.

Compare with this, which appears to be a very similar situation... but just look at the difference in skill level:

http://www.56.com/u81/v_MTY0MDM5MA.html

[Knifefighter]

Looks to me like there is a lot of anger there... looks like two drunks pushing each other around. I don't know about CXW letting the guy push him - that's justmaking excuses for him. Seems to me the other guy gets right through and pushes him no sweat - so, not very impressive, lol.

Compare with this, which appears to be a very similar situation... but just look at the difference in skill level:

http://www.56.com/u81/v_MTY0MDM5MA.html

That situation in not similar. In your clip the smaller guy is letting the larger guy launch his offense. Looks like they were both tai chi practitioners and the smaller guy (either because he was younger or was the other guy's student) was deferring to the larger one since he was being compliant. He was soley giving energy and doing nothing to counter or set up any offense.

In the first clip, the tai chi guy was not getting the chance to do anything because the other guy did not give the tai chi guy any angles or chances at offbalancing and was starting his offense first.

The difference between clips is the difference in intent between opponents... one was compliant while the other was not.

[Water-quan]

That situation in not similar. In your clip the smaller guy is letting the larger guy launch his offense. Looks like they were both tai chi practitioners and the smaller guy (either because he was younger or was the other guy's student) was deferring to the larger one since he was being compliant. He was soley giving energy and doing nothing to counter or set up any offense.

In the first clip, the tai chi guy was not getting the chance to do anything because the other guy did not give the tai chi guy any angles or chances at offbalancing and was starting his offense first.

The difference between clips is the difference in intent between opponents... one was compliant while the other was not.

Well, I agree - what I meant was that it seems like a chat around the dinner table has moved in to a bit of push hands.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all - the CXW clip is clearly not freindly push hands - it's just bodering on a fight breaking out because two egos are belly-flopping against each other - which is the difference. Pretty crap actually... but there again, push hands is push hands and fighting is fighting... so if they can't play nice, then they will look like two drunks pushing each other in a slightly camp bar room argument, lol.

The second clip looks like Yiquan to me, not taiji. But, to my mind, the second clip is of a much more talented push hands player. Don't know if he would have dealt wit the first guy better, but, i reckon he would.

Still - yes - compliance is a key issue... although compliance ande just not being as good are fairly indistinguishable at times. A good boxer can make a crap boxer look compliant.

[Knifefighter]

A good boxer can make a crap boxer look compliant.

Compliant? I have to disagree with that one. One person can outclass another, but making someone look compliant only happens if one person is being compliant.

Look at the first clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5RLWYQbNuI

The one competitor clearly outclasses the other, but the opponent still does not look compliant.

It is obvious when one person is resisting, even if he is completely outclassed.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

The first clip of tournament type pushing looks like Taiwan rules.. good stuff.. has some street value..

CXW, as i recall from some previous discussions, is in a bit of a hostile environment and is trying to maintain dignity while not offending the audience..

The third clip is nicely done.. skill and control.. but the person being doninated is of obvious lesser skill.. he is too far forward of his central equilibrium, and resting on the other person..

Be well..

[Vajramusti]

CXW, as i recall from some previous discussions, is in a bit of a hostile environment and is trying to maintain dignity while not offending the audience..
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Not only that... note that CXW is just repeatedly pointing at his chest and asking
the other fellow to push him ...he is just adjusting and not losing his balance.
Context is much. Have to know what to look for.
CXW has the real goods. Skill, timing and power. He is selective about what to show, when, to whom. He has no need for forum accolades.

joy chaudhuri

[Water-quan]

Compliant? I have to disagree with that one. One person can outclass another, but making someone look compliant only happens if one person is being compliant.

Look at the first clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5RLWYQbNuI

The one competitor clearly outclasses the other, but the opponent still does not look compliant.

It is obvious when one person is resisting, even if he is completely outclassed.

OK, point accepted.

[Water-quan]

CXW, as i recall from some previous discussions, is in a bit of a hostile environment and is trying to maintain dignity while not offending the audience..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not only that... note that CXW is just repeatedly pointing at his chest and asking
the other fellow to push him ...he is just adjusting and not losing his balance.
Context is much. Have to know what to look for.
CXW has the real goods. Skill, timing and power. He is selective about what to show, when, to whom. He has no need for forum accolades.

joy chaudhuri

Well, I don't care, lol. I respect the man's taiji, but I don't make excuses for people - that's just daft to do in my view. Taiwan rules my backside! If you don't mind me saying, lol. Excuses, excuses.... Looks like two drunks pushing eaxh other around on a Saturday night. All the rest - excuses, in my view.

As for he doesn't need acoladeson forums, well, as Wang Xiang Zhai said, boxers who are great in private aren't worth a penny. In other words, seeing is belivieng, and all you can believe is what you see. You make it sound like other people's fault that the video looked so awful....

[B-Rad]

Well, I don't care, lol. I respect the man's taiji, but I don't make excuses for people - that's just daft to do in my view.

No more "daft" than your equally uninformed guesses as to what was going on. It probably isn't too smart of any of us to make these kind of guesses that without knowing the context of the situation. We'll just have to agree to disagree on our personal interpretations of what we saw unless someone gives a reliable first hand account.

Taiwan rules my backside!

I think you might have gotten Tai Chi Bob's comment confused with the comments about the CXW clip. If you were in fact referring to the competition clip though, could you explain what Taiwan rules are and the difference between

[Water-quan]

No more "daft" than your equally uninformed guesses as to what was going on. It probably isn't too smart of any of us to make these kind of guesses that without knowing the context of the situation.

Well, I'm pretty smart. The daftest of the daftest is to make up some excuse for someone else as a reason why they are exactly what they are, or are doing exactly what they are doing. The clip of CXW looks naff, and that's not my fault. What I find amusing is that when this kind of situation happens somehow it's other people's fault that someone else looked naff, lol... like, how dare you look! Ha ha.. very funny...

It's just really awful shoving. Now, ten minutes later he might have looked awesome, dealing with five drunk commandos, I don't know.... but in that clip - this being the wonder of video - I don't have to guess, because I can see.

Now, by all means find some way to make it my fault that it looks naff - good luck with that! Smoke screen smoke screen.... "how dare you assume that you know what is going on... there is a secret reason why it looks naff..." Well, maybe.

Still, it is by far adn away MORE daft to make excuses for people than it is to look at a bit of naff-ness and say "that's naff!"

We'll just have to agree to disagree on our personal interpretations of what we saw unless someone gives a reliable first hand account.

Well, we both saw the same thing, it's just that you have added in extra-scene reasons to explain the naffness of it.... which is really, amusingly, a kind of admittance by you that you know it looks naff.... very funny

[B-Rad]

http://www.56.com/u81/v_MTY0MDM5MA.html

That's a really cool clip! Definitely of different skill levels (which is a pretty easy observation to make when one guy's getting tossed on every exchange, lol). I think it's a good illustration on how to use one guy's force against himself though. The one guy keeps leaning in really hard, putting his body weight into the other guy trying to force him back. Hopefully he learned his lesson

[Water-quan]

That's a really cool clip! Definitely of different skill levels (which is a pretty easy observation to make when one guy's getting tossed on every exchange, lol). I think it's a good illustration on how to use one guy's force against himself though. The one guy keeps leaning in really hard, putting his body weight into the other guy trying to force him back. Hopefully he learned his lesson

Lol.. What I get form that is a sense of people all sat having a meal and one guy says "I do martial arts..." and it just escalates in to that, lol.... and wishing he'd never mentioned it...

[Water-quan]

Yao ZongXun:

http://www.56.com/u63/v_OTMyNjczMg.html