The Secret of Power

[Black Jack II]

Well, Bush doesn't really have any power. It's his friends who put him into the Presidency and gave him all of this. Bush is just a figurehead, but when I say Bush I mean Bush and his friends.

It's pretty obvious what Bush and his friends mean to accomplish. It's enriching themselves while bankrupting the U.S., and the integration of the Americas. Bush has already bought a large spread down in South America for his family.

I so hate this type of undernourished thinking. It's soooo old to see this nonsense from people trying to sound aristocratic. Rogue is right, stay on the **** topic.

[Crushing Fist]

But why does anything need to change? What's the point of it?

In this world our only power is the building of sandcastles next to the sea.






Everything changes. The problem is once you have changed something into the shape you desire, that shape cannot last. Like everything, it will continue to change.

[FuXnDajenariht]

nothing will overcome the power of love.

be sincere in your intent and doing.

be honest about it.

treat others like you would like to be treated.

--

our days will be a lot happier for us and others.

--

SPJ has the correct as they say.

[Water-quan]

But why does anything need to change? What's the point of it? Isn't thinking that something needs to change extremely egotistical? Basically it means that you think you know better what things should be, and you want to change them to your liking, right?

That is a powerfully wise insight, in my humble view.

[Water-quan]

In this world our only power is the building of sandcastles next to the sea.






Everything changes. The problem is once you have changed something into the shape you desire, that shape cannot last. Like everything, it will continue to change.

Interesting insights.

[KC Elbows]

So Mao didn't gain power and keep it for a good long time?

Mao's power was entirely tied into keeping his power, which prevented him from having effective power, which is the only useful power. Additionally, men tied into personality cults lose the flexibility to actually be anything other than the myth they must project or face certain loss of power: perhaps there was a real Mao that joined the commies, but the Mao on all those people's walls is a myth that that Mao had to make of himself and never ever be seen as breaking from.

This wouldn't be such a hard task from people you have no feelings for, but a man as focused on power as Mao, especially one versed in Chinese history, would be well aware that even family must observe the myth. Soon, one would likely have to decide which parts of the family support the myth and which parts are merely fooled into it. From there, history seems to suggest that there is absolutely no good result when a close family member, especially a favored, well loved one, for any grounds, moral included, chooses to cease observing and supporting the myth. It also appears to be fairly common under similar circumstances.

In short, if your existence must be caged up, how is that anything but impotence?



DL,

In a way, I'd say that there are some links between influence on the two levels, especially considering that the first links on the larger chain of influence are family and close confidants, but yeah, I wouldn't strain the ties too much. One is much more prone to relationships of opportunity. I'd say it applies to very small organizations still, though, so a lot of people would be tied into that that would be needing a list.

And yes, Sun Tzu was advocating a lot of this, but he does not place a judgement value on the individual, he suggests knowledge of the foe, not a quick measuring of their worth to you specifically as the worth to the whole.

[rogue]

But why does anything need to change? What's the point of it? Isn't thinking that something needs to change extremely egotistical? Basically it means that you think you know better what things should be, and you want to change them to your liking, right?

A very good question followed by a very good answer.

Everything changes. The problem is once you have changed something into the shape you desire, that shape cannot last. Like everything, it will continue to change

Even dead things change.

Isn't thinking that something needs to change extremely egotistical?

I don't know about extremely egotistical but yes, a person would be saying that they know a better way than what the status quo is. I do it with my kids, I do it at work. Over my kids I exert power but for their benefit. Same thing at work, except at work I sometimes have people with opposing view points that I have to "battle" with. At home I'm king, at work I need allies and influence.


KC Elbows: Power is power. Mao stayed in power which was useful to him which means he had effective power.

[David Jamieson]

without change, there is no life, without leaders there is no society only disparate groups and anarchy.

some things are self evident and some things that are self evident still escape perception of some.

why should things change? It's not a matter of why or why not, it's a matter of seeing that they do, it is the way it is. You are born, you live, you grow, you get old, your body screws up, you die. the cycle of change is with you every day. the sun rises, crosses over until it is night, seasons come and go, life marches on and death keeps pace.

and yes, it is because someone says "there has to be a better way" that incites further change. The world you live in now will not be the world that you live in 20 years from now or even tomorrow.

if you get in a car accident, your life will change, will it's value diminish? not necessarily, but it will definitely be forever changed.

Power can be as simple as understanding just a few of those things.

arguing against change is to argue for retardation of progress and human spirit.
To hide in you shell is to live an unexamined life and is to be dishonest with yourself which is probably the worst thing you could do to yourself.

all in all, this thread is interesting.

[SevenStar]

But why does anything need to change? What's the point of it? Isn't thinking that something needs to change extremely egotistical? Basically it means that you think you know better what things should be, and you want to change them to your liking, right?

if you want things to stay the same, things must change. that's just how it works. However, attempting to create a change on your own does not imply that one is egotistical. Research of this very forum tells me that most of the posters do not like the color scheme. By changing the color scheme, would that be ego on my part? No. Or do you think that it's the collective ego of all of the posters who think they know what the color scheme should be?

[neilhytholt]

if you want things to stay the same, things must change. that's just how it works. However, attempting to create a change on your own does not imply that one is egotistical. Research of this very forum tells me that most of the posters do not like the color scheme. By changing the color scheme, would that be ego on my part? No. Or do you think that it's the collective ego of all of the posters who think they know what the color scheme should be?

Guess the point I was trying to make is, if you assume Hitler or Mao changed things, did they really change them for the better?

Personally I don't really think so. But that's just a personal opinion.

It just seems like when somebody like this starts thinking they know better what things should be, screw everybody else, that they cause a ton of problems.

Like take the forum colors. If you think you know better what the colors should be, and go ahead and exert your influence and change them, are you really making it better? How do you know what people are going to want?

But if you take a less egotistical approach, and ask people what they want, then perhaps you will come up with a solution that is more agreeable to people.

[Adventure427]

Power just means the capability to act.......


As has been said...what it's used for must be taken into account...


We train martial arts...those who do not, (unless they have a weapon) may not have the power to help a girl being raped...we do.... (or we will, for us newbies)...

---Unless they call the cops, or cause attention to the scene or convince someone else to help her immediately---That's Power

Those who have no money...do not have the power to donate food and money to starving children in africa....those who do have the power may not use it that way...This is Power

Power can come from tons of things...your own power and other peoples power... If my car is broke, and i ask for a ride...or take a bus...or ride a bike...these are all expressions of my power being used to get from point a to point b.

Power is neutral... "Guns dont kill people...people kill people..." - DMX (lol)

"With great power come responsibility" - Dont remember who said it



We all have degree's of power....Power with our friends/family/children/community/world...whether we realize it or not.. Whether we BELEIVE IT or not... (if you doubt this imagine taking your family and friends out and picking up the trash in your neighborhood, offering a free carwash and hosting your own block party.......versus having everyone throw buckets of paint on everyones houses.......or doing nothing..... you telling me that no matter what you do, you're actions dont have any effect?) Of course...i know everyone is aware of this on an inner level, even if it takes a second to realize....

[rogue]

Guess the point I was trying to make is, if you assume Hitler or Mao changed things, did they really change them for the better?

Like the 48 rules of power if you look at it amorally you'll see the horror they created but also how one was a catalyst for progress in science and industry. Change creates more change.

Now morally I don't think those advancements were worth the lives of those murdered or killed by those two.

[Yum Cha]

If you want to split another hare....

Power and Leadership. One can have power, say, a big budget, and one can have charisma, and leadership qualities of good judgment and fairness, or even an understanding of his followers. To my mind both are power, but our author doesn't seem to recognise the positive inspirational elements of leadership in his "laws".

History is littered with examples of great leaders who overcame very powerful individuals and institutions with little more than righteousness, fairness, courage and conviction.

Granted, leadership is "a" power, as are money, influence, intimidation, etc, etc.

[rogue]

Can you name them?

[David Jamieson]

I would have to say that that is a fairly idealistic understanding and that righteousness, fairness, courage and conviction are not exactly the ways that things get done but rather they play into how stories get told after the fact.

I think you will be hard pressed to name more than perhaps a handful of people who had these attributes and who also had any real power.

For instance, one could say Ghandi had these things, but one could also say that Ghandi was prone to his lust, his prudishness, his conceit and ultimately divided his country in half and was himself intolerant. But yet, he is painted as a great soul.

You could say the Dalai Lama is a great and righteous person, or you could say he is also a coward who ran when faced with the reality of losing his power and his position as political god king over the uneducated masses of tibetan who literally worship him as such. Is that righteous or are we being played by the stories that are wrapped around these figures?

Food for thought.

Then we can look at men who we think may have been evil and have been painted with a black brush, but on further investigation of their actions, we might find that they did great things and made hard decisions.

beware the meme, call a spade a spade and carry on. It's all we can really do.