Official Shaolin Manuscript(Shaolin Wugong) Series Translation Project - Proposal

[Royal Dragon]

What if you skipped paper altogether, to lower all your costs and skip the need to even had a publisher get involved.
Make pdf file books.
A lot of companies are selling books on disc now, it is a new thing that is just starting here. I know a bunch of people that are making their books on disc that come in a really nice DVD sized case.

Reply]
PDF's are too hard on the eyes....I'd want a real paper book if I was going to go through 10 volumes of reading. I do too much on a computer as it is. My eyes burn at the end of the day from the screen.

Also, I agree on showing the entire Tai Tzu Chang Chuan form, especially since it is such a key form in Shaolin history.

[neilhytholt]

AND< PLEASE PLEASE have Shi Dejian finally show the 3 Shaolin Tai Tzu Chang Quan forms that only the moves are given in the Shaolin Encyclopedia but there are no images for these 3 forms.

THEN it would be really worth it for me to buy, whatever format you do it on.

Why does everybody obsess about forms? Who the hell cares about the forms?

Do they have the app breakdowns for all the forms?

[hvillarruel]

Have you seen:

www.lulu.com ??

It seems interesting what they are doing.

[Librarian]

Forum User Gene Ching,

Are you sure you exact a serious look upon my reference ?

-Shaolin Gong Fu a Course in Traditional Forms presents a series of basic forms and an overview of Shaolin Concepts and Qi cycling.It cannot be compared to Shaolin Wugong Book Series since it is based on overview and not in in – depth references since that was no the main reason of publishing.

-Shaolin Master Liu Hai Chao was based in INTRODUCING and furthermore offer the first steps in Global Popularisation

-Shaolin Wugong Series is the work Shaolin Masters refer to in order to enhance their training in all ways.

-The Translated Edition I am refering to is the Enriched version of the Original One.Never published before content(neither in China)will be added not as a way of altering the Original but as Chapter/Section add – on by Shaolin Masters

Check www.shaolin.cn.com a few of my “opinions” on Shaolin are presented there

[Librarian]

Forum User Sal Canzoniery,

-Thanks for your interest

-Due to officiality issues the complete series has to be translated at the same time.As can comprehend this is the first time a work presenting more than 2000 years of Shaolin Heritage is published in English.

-This project will comprise Book publishing companies contribution because of the value of knowledge these Manuscripts are imbued with.

-Pdf form will be the next step yet I have to explain that the cost is based on the translating

-The printing issue(referring to PDF) is still under discussion.

-The number of the people needed (500) for the project to be completed is an estimation.That means that depending on the individual intertested the cost will chasnge

-Videos are a seperate from the Shaolin Wugong Project part.It is very probable that(depending on popularisation of this project)Shaolin Temple accepts related presentations.Do not neglect that this is professional work.I have to mention that in case video project is created I will personally ask for English speaking Shaolin Monks and Masters to contribute in order to avoid language interpratation problems.

P.S.:Since there will be additional commentary volumes start asking – as long as you are interested that is -

P.S.:The idea is to bring official Shaolin knowledge to all that cannot visit the Shaolin Temple to study for long periods

[Librarian]

Forum User Sal Canzoniery,

-I already obtain both Shaolin Encyclopedias of Shaolin Master Shi De Qian and Shaolin Gong Fu a Course in Traditional Forms book series too.

AND< PLEASE PLEASE have Shi Dejian finally show the 3 Shaolin Tai Tzu Chang Quan forms that only the moves are given in the Shaolin Encyclopedia but there are no images for these 3 forms.

THEN it would be really worth it for me to buy, whatever format you do it on.

-I will do,please send any question you need answered we are making coment books too.


-I maybe able to look a bit further on answering related questions on Official level please give some time.

[Librarian]

Forum User Neilhytholt,

-In order for one to achieve realisation in all he has to comprehend

Do they have the app breakdowns for all the forms?

-Even if there are not they can be created.Sholin is based on Evolution

[Royal Dragon]

Why does everybody obsess about forms? Who the hell cares about the forms?

Do they have the app breakdowns for all the forms?

Reply]
Neil, the perticular forms have a special significance in shaolin history and are rather important forms not only for Shaolin, but all practitioners of the Tai tzu style, reguardless of branch.

It is the oldest recorded form of our style. We don't need the apps, we have them all all ready...although lots of apps to the 3 Tai Tzu Chang Chuan sets would be nice, as would a deep and detailed description of the styles useage and such, but a full presentation of the form is much more important than the apps for those of us who are interetsed in Shaolin, and Tai Tzu Chang Chuan specifically.

Librarian,
If I could have all my dreams come tue, I'd like to see written history, and details on the creation of the Tai Tzu Chang Chuan sets (Who was involved, when, why) as well as the forms choreography, applications of technique, and over all strategy of useage of said techniques in free fighting.

The Tai Tzu sets, as well as Xiao Hong and Da Hong sets are key forms in the over all evolution of Shaolin, an extrodonarily deep and detailed segment should be included for each one specifically, as well as the few other really old and foundational Shaolin forms still around today.

[GeneChing]

Are you sure you exact a serious look upon my reference ?

Are you sure you're qualified to undertake this project? That sentence has got some serious grammatical problems.

Please don't get defensive, Librarian. I do encourage your project. Translating this work would be a great benefit to the English-speaking Shaolin community. Translation is a serious undertaking. A fair portion of my job is based on translation. Are you sure you exact a serious look upon my reference? When I did the interview with Shi Deqian for the article cited above, the project of translation did come up. If you read that article, you'll see it written between the lines, as well as blatantly stated in the conclusion. Now our company, TC Media, is starting to publish books. We have reviewed the market potential of such an endeavor, factoring costs, production and comparative sales based on over 20 years of market research, and we declined the project. I don't say that to discourage you. I'm actually very excited that you are interested in taking this project on. Your initial post had a business inquiry about the list price and I honestly shared my reaction to your proposal. As a business venture, it's not that sound. As a research venture, it's awesome. A lot of us do plenty of research that never turns a profit, at least not a monetary one. There's always karma, and many of us bank heavily upon that.

[B-Rad]

Are you sure you're qualified to undertake this project? That sentence has got some serious grammatical problems.

Thanks for asking him that, I was kind of wondering the same thing.

Librarian, how involved will you be in the actual translation work? No offense, but your English doesn't seem to be all that great, at least in comparison to the level of English skills needed when writing a book. If you're not involved, what are the qualifications of the others working on the project?

[Sal Canzonieri]

Why does everybody obsess about forms? Who the hell cares about the forms?

Do they have the app breakdowns for all the forms?

I dont mean this with a mean tone at all, but with a concerned and perplexed tone:

Here's the fundamental thing that really shows me that you really don't understand martial arts, CMA or not.

How can there be a set way of doing apps so that you can make app breakdowns on paper? There is an infinite amount of apps for each move in a form, period.

Every move in CMA is both offense and defense simultaneously. This is fundamental.

There is no specific move for each thing, because if you practice the moves in the forms, and you used proper body mechanics, and you understood how to move your body, THEN any move is going to work against any attack. THAT is what is the whole point about CMA and forms and applications. I'm sorry you never learned this, but every CMA teacher I have ever had since 1975 has taught this and shown it.

Show me any form, any, and I will show you hundreds of apps, with correct body mechanics.

Here, I'll make this offer, pay me to hold a seminar, and I will show you how to do this yourself, if you possess the foundational skills and knowledge (that you can do the correct body mechanics).

Anyways, that is a different topic, shouldn't be discussed here and hijack this thread. Please, thanks

[Sal Canzonieri]

Thanks for asking him that, I was kind of wondering the same thing.

Librarian, how involved will you be in the actual translation work? No offense, but your English doesn't seem to be all that great, at least in comparison to the level of English skills needed when writing a book. If you're not involved, what are the qualifications of the others working on the project?

I have worked in translations for many years for technology companies, so I volunteer to help smooth out the english, if you need people.

You are going to need people that do Shaolin and can understand how to translate correctly, otherwise the wrong words will be chose from the many possiblities some Chinese characters can have, the person has to understand context to get the nuances right.

[Royal Dragon]

Sal, exprapilating apps from forms is not allways an easy thing. Some of the moves just look incomprehendable. One really needs to be shown some apps that at least demonstraight the core concept behind the moves in the form before they can begin to exprapilate more apps from a given technique.

Also, we don't really know what the original intent was for those moves. If the founders of our styles could come back from the past, they may look at our apps and be going "No, you've got it all wrong".

The "Way" these techniques are used in the style is more represenitive of the style, than the choreography of the form, so if we just go off developing our own apps for the techniques, are we really doing the same style anymore?

I was watching a San Shou vid the other day, and i saw a move from our Tai Tzu form. (The one after pounds the mortar, where you turn and upper cut behind, followed by the double kick). I had allways seen that as a cover, brush aside followed by an upppercut. However, in the san shou vid, the fighter uses it by grabbing his opponents kick, trapping it aganst his body, and throwing him by his trapped leg as he truns. The upper cut is not an upper cut here, you use the upper arm to help pivot and give a launching point for the opponent's leg. Same identical motion though.

Now, this is a TOTALLY different concept, and *Style* of use than what i was originally seeing that app to be. Since both apps are functional, stylistically speaking, which app is right for Tai Tzu?

I could go to my water boxing friend to help decipher apps for my form, and even for fighting strategy, but would I be useing tai tzu anymore? Or would it now be Li Hu, Ba Fa that is drawing on a Long Fist form for the tools.

See my point? One needs to be shown the apps for the forms, by a teacher who has been passed the original intent of the technique specific for that style, or else we are just reinventing the wheel, and making up our own styles based on trial and error.

[Sal Canzonieri]

This is hijacking this thread, let's start a new one.

But:

Royal you are completely wrong, sorry.
I'll explain later to you.

Also, yes, that "new" application to Pound Mortar you saw is a common application, you must have not encountered it cause you don't have a regular teacher.
There are so many.

It's even an app in Xiao Hong Quan

[Librarian]

Forum User Royal Dragon,

We don't need the apps, we have them all all ready...although lots of apps to the 3 Tai Tzu Chang Chuan sets would be nice, as would a deep and detailed description of the styles useage and such, but a full presentation of the form is much more important than the apps for those of us who are interetsed in Shaolin, and Tai Tzu Chang Chuan specifically.

-The differentiation between a Shaolin Practitioner that has the required certificates to teach and a Shaolin Master or Monk is the insight in Void.

That is why the more ways one can speak(applications during a sparring/combat sequence is like a dialogue and techniques like words and languages)the better he can evolve in the respective field

If I could have all my dreams come tue, I'd like to see written history, and details on the creation of the Tai Tzu Chang Chuan sets (Who was involved, when, why) as well as the forms choreography, applications of technique, and over all strategy of useage of said techniques in free fighting

That is the reason this project has started.In case you have more dreams on Shaolin it would be usefull to share them.That is a part of Shaolin Spirit the will to evolve without harming