4 original Pak Mei forms

[Vince]

I just got my hands on a very old magazine article (official karate, feb 1976): "Pat Mei Kung Fu, designed for fighting". It is about a west-coast pak mei school lead by a sifu Patrick Lee. Lee states in that article, that originally there were only 4 Pak Mei forms, but since they were very difficult to learn, other forms were added to make it easier for the students. So now my question would be: What were the original 4 Pak Mei forms?

[ittokaos]

I'm kinda new to pak mei and I only know half of Sup Jee so I don't know how helpful I can be. I was told(when I first started) that if you don't know sup jee then how can you say that you know bak mei? Therefore I think that one of the forms is sup jee. I hope this helps.




WF

[Yum Cha]

IF you follow that train of thought, which may or may not be relevent when you consider what Pak Mei is and where it came from, the "core" forms are often considered to be:

Jik Bo
Gau Bo Twi
Sub Baat Mor Que
Mang Fu Chit Lum

However, there is considerable opinion that Jik Bo is a training exercise to learn Gau Bo Twi, and that Mang Fu Chit Lum was a form fashoned by the Grand Master from his training at the temple, and that Gau Bo Twi and Sub Baat Mor Que are one long form cut into two pieces. Of course, I wasn't there at the time, so its all only hearsay, speculation and even perhaps misinformation or legend.

My personal position is that the Pak Mei that lives today started with the Grand Master, what came before is something else, and unfortunately, what some have done with it since has become something else.

The "other forms" from Grand Master, like Sek Se, Saam Mun, Say Mun, Ying Jau Lin Que and Dey Sut likened to the tools, whereas the senior forms are the craftsmanship. Historically, there have been many who have come to the art with other tools, only to learn the craftsmanship.

[Tiger on Duty]

yep mung fu is on the ball.

really should be thought of as the 3 original forms and the masterclass form created by clc which is mung fu chut lam(wether it really is better than the original 3 is debateable).

He is also correct that some students only asked after the core forms, like my sigung, this doesnt mean that sub ji etc arnt pak mei, just that they where added later and dont necessarily accentuate the original essence.

But that doesnt mean they arnt effective or worthwhile.

peace out.

[wu-ji]

I am not a Baimeiquan practitioner. However, I am a Wuzuquan practicioner that share similar principles. They are more like cousins with similarities in DNA to a certain degree, but then there are difference in the emphasis and practice.

I'd like to offer my perspective as an outsider.

From what I see:

- Jik Bo Kuen is the very nucleus of Baimeiquan core principles: flood, sink, swallow, spit. This is comparable to Wuzuquan's concept of Sam Chien although the choreography is different.

-Gau Bo Toi is the essence of Baimequan's attack, especially the core attack through front gate. It also teaches the essential of fighting against 4 directions. It is comparable to Wuzuquan's Ji Sip Kun although Ji Sip Kun uses more basic straight punches only (very core principles of frontal attack). I see 9 Bo Toi as more composite, in conjunction of Baimequan's preference of fast attack.

- Sup Pat Mo Kiu teaches attack from different gates and essence of "combo" attacks. I see this as a ticket to advanced level Baimeiquan.

-Meng Fu Cit Lam. I have never seen this so I can't really comment. However, if it is a Tiger reinforcement to Baimequan's concepts, I can imagine that it adds the complexity of the Baimequan's flooding attack, more likely claw, pull, grab, throw to the sequential combo.

I see anything else as train forms to reinforce those concepts. Wuzuquan uses similar practice as well. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Pak Mei Kuen is beautifully brutal.

[Tiger on Duty]

You have great insight wu-ji, you must have a deep understanding of your own art.

[wu-ji]

Hello Tiger,

It is not great at all. It is just there is no end in learning. It seems that you are from NZ. Are you related to Master Lee by any chance? I saw couple of his clips and I have a great respect for him; great combination of sink and float power generation - not many people master both. I hope one day I can meet and talk with him. Please say my best regards.

I also saw CMASNZ uniform in my friend's recording of Quanzhao International Wuzuquan Federation Conference.

[Vince]

How come Sub Ji Kuen is not mentioned as a beginners form?

[Tiger on Duty]

jik bo isnt normally thought of as the starting form because CLC didnt teach it 1st in most cases, he would teach the hybrid forms before jik bo(this mainly applies to hk lineage).

But if following the sequence he was taught at the temple, you can see jik bo- leads to gau bo toi-leads to saap bhat mo kiu.

I think its important to remember this fact as learning the hybrid forms in most cases doesnt prepare you as well for gau bo toi/saap bhat as does jik bo.

wu ji - If it was a black jacket you saw it could be my sifu's younger brother sibak lee from macau.

That is if the clip was from china etc, could also have been sifu lee(my sifu), he does travel back frequently to hk/macau/china.