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Thread: Calling a spade, a spade....

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  1. #1
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    Calling a spade, a spade....

    It dawned on me when I was just running in the park today that what refer to as
    "martial arts" is not very precise.

    Martial arts or Wu Shu could be any warfare related skills. Shooting a gun or military strategy could be referred to as Wu Shu.

    What practitioners of Martial Arts, Kung Fu, Mixed Martial Arts, Muy Thai, Karate, whatever actually study is "hand-to-hand combat."

    Using the term "art" is too broad and opens up to much interpretation. For, example is PRC Wu Shu a "martial art?" Maybe, but it definitely doesn't have anything to do with "hand to hand combat."

    Then you have Mixed Martial Arts which is a kind of misnomer in itself because practioners of MMA actually just study "hand to hand combat" and they draw from many different disciplines of hand-to-hand combat, but really the eschew all the cultural baggage that goes along with a "martial art."

    So I propose that we don't use Kung Fu, Martial Art, Fist Method etc, but rather call
    what we study what it actually is and that is "hand to hand combat."

    And once we call it that we can move on to a dialogue about which method is better for improving skill at "hand to hand combat" not who has the most hand sets or best lineage or who won in whatever sporting event.

    And we can definitely discount people that claim to teach "hand to hand combat" and yet have never and will never engage in any thing that even resembles "hand to hand combat."

    Ok, I'll get off my soap box now.

    FP
    Last edited by Fu-Pow; 03-21-2007 at 11:06 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Fu-Pow View Post

    And we can definitely discount people that claim to teach "hand to hand combat" and yet have never and will never engage in any thing that even resembles "hand to hand combat."

    Ok, I'll get off my soap box now.

    FP
    And how is this argument different from the MMA vs. CMA arguments? Come on now, it's just the same argument in disguise.

    BTW you're not supposed to use call a spade a spade anymore because it has racist connotations.

  3. #3
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    You can do hand to hand all you want, I am not giving up my Broad Sword, or kicking people.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Royal Dragon View Post
    You can do hand to hand all you want, I am not giving up my Broad Sword, or kicking people.
    I would count kicking people and broadsword in "hand-to-hand combat."

    As does wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_to_hand_combat

  5. #5
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    using wikipedia as evidence is not a good idea. especially when someone could just as easily go in and re write what hand to hand combat is to prove you wrong lol.

    wikiality.

  6. #6
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    whats in a name, do what you do, call it what you want. Judo is called "soft way" . Say that after getting slammed by a 200lb er.
    Bless you

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceSteveRoy View Post
    using wikipedia as evidence is not a good idea. especially when someone could just as easily go in and re write what hand to hand combat is to prove you wrong lol.

    wikiality.
    Wikipedia is actually as accurate or more accurate often than any standard encyclopedia. Apparently, on average anything written in there erroneously gets corrected within
    4 minutes....lol

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilhytholt View Post
    And how is this argument different from the MMA vs. CMA arguments? Come on now, it's just the same argument in disguise.

    BTW you're not supposed to use call a spade a spade anymore because it has racist connotations.
    I asked a bunch of people if this was a racist remark, and they all told me "no". Does anyone actually know the history of this saying?
    ------
    Jason

    --Keep talking and I'm gonna serve you dinner...by opening up a can of "whoop-ass" and for dessert, a slice of Lama Pai!

    God gave us free will. Therefore he is pro-choice.

  9. #9
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    OK, I stole this from here

    "to call a spade a spade"

    (Phrase Origins)



    is NOT an ethnic slur.
    It derives from an ancient Greek expression: _ta syka syka, te:n
    skaphe:n de skaphe:n onomasein_ = "to call a fig a fig, a trough a
    trough". This is first recorded in Aristophanes' play _The Clouds_
    (423 B.C.), was used by Menander and Plutarch, and is still current
    in modern Greek. There has been a slight shift in meaning: in
    ancient times the phrase was often used pejoratively, to denote a
    rude person who spoke his mind tactlessly; but it now, like the
    English phrase, has an exclusively positive connotation. It is
    possible that both the fig and the trough were originally sexual
    symbols.
    In the Renaissance, Erasmus confused Plutarch's "trough"
    (_skaphe:_) with the Greek word for "digging tool" (_skapheion_;
    the two words are etymologically connected, a trough being
    something that is hollowed out) and rendered it in Latin as _ligo_.
    Thence it was translated into English in 1542 by Nicholas Udall in
    his translation of Erasmus's version as "to call a spade [...] a
    spade". (_Bartlett's Familiar Quotations_ perpetuates Erasmus'
    error by mistranslating _skaphe:_ as "spade" three times under
    Menander.)
    "To call a spade a bloody shovel" is not recorded until 1919.
    "Spade" in the sense of "Negro" is not recorded until 1928. (It
    comes from the colour of the playing card symbol, via the phrase
    "black as the ace of spades".)

    This, of course, does *not* necessarily render the modern use of
    "to call a spade a spade" "politically correct". Rosalie Maggio, in
    _The Bias-Free Word-Finder_, writes: "The expression is associated
    with a racial slur and is to be avoided", and recommends using "to
    speak plainly" or other alternatives instead. In another entry, she
    writes: "Although by definition and derivation 'niggardly' and
    '******' are completely unrelated, 'niggardly' is too close for
    comfort to a word with profoundly negative associations. Use
    instead one of the many available alternatives: stingy, miserly,
    parsimonious..." Beard and Cerf, in _The Official Politically
    Correct Handbook_, p. 123, report that an administrator at the
    University of California at Santa Cruz campaigned for the banning
    of such phrases as "a ***** in his armor" and "a nip in the air",
    because "*****" and "nip" are also derogatory terms for "Chinese
    person" and "Japanese person" respectively. In the late 1970s in
    the U.S., a boycott of the (now defunct) Sambo's restaurant chain
    was organized, even though the name "Sambo's" was a combination of
    the names of its two founders and did not come from the offensive
    word for dark-skinned person.
    ------
    Jason

    --Keep talking and I'm gonna serve you dinner...by opening up a can of "whoop-ass" and for dessert, a slice of Lama Pai!

    God gave us free will. Therefore he is pro-choice.

  10. #10
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    You can't really manipulate language so

    To get back OT, the general public will call martial arts 'martial arts'. There's no way you can change what goes into the popular vernacular. For example, it's always driven me nuts that we translate dao as broadsword. That's totally inaccurate. But there's no way to change it.

    Here - check out this old e-zine article: Wushu Needs Name Rectification by An Tianrong
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  11. #11
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    BUt if you called it a "do" then you'd have to validate those kentucky kempo kooks (kkk)

    j/k you guys, get a sense of humour already.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  12. #12
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    Philistine


  13. #13
    Next somebody will start saying that you shouldn't call it 'kung fu' because that doesn't mean martial arts.

    Serioiusly, though, FP, I agree with you.

    Although I don't think you could rename everything without making a lot of people mad.
    Last edited by neilhytholt; 03-21-2007 at 08:25 PM.

  14. #14
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    It doesn't, technically it's Wu Gong, meaning martial skills
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Royal Dragon View Post
    It doesn't, technically it's Wu Gong, meaning martial skills
    I guess I should have put a next to that line.

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